In this episode, I sit down with my team—Ally and Mariana—for a real, unfiltered debrief following our recent conference. We reflect on the moments that moved us, the parts that challenged us, and everything in between. We talk openly about the highlights and low points, the behind-the-scenes realities of bringing this work to life, and what it actually takes—emotionally, mentally, and logistically—to hold space for conversations rooted in trauma, justice, and healing. Most importantly, we share the voices and messages that stayed with us—the speakers who shifted something in us, the stories we’re still carrying, and the people who, in many ways, changed us through their courage, authenticity, and truth. This is a conversation about impact, reflection, and the kind of work that doesn’t end when the event is over. It’s honest, grounded, and a reminder that when we gather with intention, something lasting always comes to us.
In this episode, I’m joined by my team—Ally and Mariana—for a candid debrief after our recent conference. We take you behind the scenes of what it really took to bring this gathering to life.
We share:
This conversation is honest, reflective, and rooted in what it means to do this kind of work in real time—not just when things go right, but when they’re complex, emotional, and evolving.
If you’ve ever wondered what happens after the event ends, this is that conversation.
The closing Maori prayer of protection was given by Tere Davis who is the Chairperson of Hei Tatau Pounamu, a tikanga‑based restorative justice trust in Auckland.
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>>Myrna McCallum: Hi, folks. Can you believe that we are at season four of the Trauma Informed Lawyer podcast? I certainly cannot believe it and I appreciate all of you for sticking with me through all of it and the delays and dropping episodes. I promise this season I'm going to be giving you a lot of content and on a more regular, predictable basis. I want to say that since I started this podcast, I don't know how long ago now, years ago, my evolution and my education has certainly, like, increased least. And I believe that becoming trauma informed in any respect is just the baseline, the bare minimum that we can do. The work for us is to become trauma responsive, culturally responsive, to become just and equitable, and to center humanity and integrity in all of the work that we do. In the spirit of that, the episodes, the conversations that are coming forward are intended to reflect that. And as I have come to learn, and probably you, the listener on understand, this conversation isn't just for lawyers and judges and law enforcement, like I, my initial intended audience. It has, like, spanned the globe, from lawyers to leaders to advocates, activists, practitioners, physicians, politicians. So many people listen to this content. Why? Because we are all dealing with human beings and all human beings are experiencing some degree of suffering, including ourselves. And so the work for us is to recognize that in each other, adapt and adjust accordingly so we do no further harm.
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>> Myrna McCallum : Well, well, who do I have today on, the Trauma Informed Lawyer podcast? The two superstars that make all the magic happen. My daughter Allie and Mariana. And we are going to talk about our experience at the recent Justice Trauma Summit that was held here in Vancouver last week. I wanted to have a debrief with them for lots of different reasons, but primarily to keep this conversation going because I didn't want it to end at the Summit And I was really curious about what insights came to them and what their experience was. Because it was so busy, we didn't really necessarily have a time, like the opportunity to sit and connect and talk about what was awesome and what was challenging and what next. So who wants to hop in first and say a little something about the Summit and maybe behind the scenes? Because I'm sure people are curious about, like, behind the scenes. What did that take? Maybe I'll start with Alicia.
>> Ally Hrbachek: Well, if we're just talking about behind the scenes, it was a lot. It was crazy. It was exhausting. It was all, all of the emotions, like any emotion you could go through in a day, we went through it, like, from start to finish. Our day started at seven in the morning on day two and day three. And we didn't stop until pretty much seven at night. So they were like long 12 hour days. But they were so. It was so rewarding and so fulfilling. Like, I'd never seen so many connections being made, so many friendships being formed. It was while as tiring as it was, it was so deeply wonderful, magical, spiritual, all of the things. I just, I loved it. And if I had a chance to do it all over again, I would.
>> Myrna McCallum : That's pretty powerful. I want to ultimately go into what you loved about it, but I want to hear from Mariana. same question I put to Ally
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: Whoa.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: When I think about the behind the scenes, it's flashes, you know, of many things happening. I cannot even put them in order because the days were so long. What you were saying, Ally, it's so funny.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: I would tell Ally, oh, did we
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: do this or that yesterday? And she would be like, girl, that was this morning. And I would always laugh and be so confused because my day started totally blurring and I just feel like we drank breath. I don't know how to say that.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: and a justice of, Radical Hope 2026 for two weeks straight. and I totally feel you, Ally It was extremely tiring and at times it was really challenging to be so tired and to be also so inspired. Because when your mind is processing so much and you're making so many new connections, you. It's like I couldn't even go to sleep, you know, I would lay down extremely tired, but my mind would still work and process and remember and think about new things and new ideas.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: What you were saying, the problem is not having ideas.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: The problem is stop having them. I would also do it all over again. I actually miss it.
>> Myrna McCallum : So I think Ally was saying, for the last few days, how much she missed it. She felt like everyone who came to this event was her friend. She's like, I miss my friends.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: Same, same.
>> Ally Hrbachek: It's true. It's true. Like, I think the people that we invited into the space and the people who came to the space, while everyone, like everyone day one, was like, dressed all professional. They showed up in, in the suit, in their work attire, and they're like, okay, I'm ready. Like, let's start these seminars. Like, let's do the things. And then when they see, you know, these two little brown girls, me and Mariana, running around in Crocs and sweaters, looking greasy, answering everyone's questions, making sure everything is flowing and going and problems are being solved, and we're like sending out emails that are authentic and True to who we are in the space that we're creating. Not only did we say that, but we showed up in that space like that. And, you know, I think we created an environment that was just so friendly and warm and welcoming and authentic to who we are as the justice's trauma team, to who we are as individuals. And, I think on day two and day three, people really showed up as their authentic selves and they felt safe to do that. And when people became like, let their guards down and really opened up, that's when the most connections were made. And I'm just like, oh my gosh, like, you're such a wonderful person. I love what you're doing, they love what we're doing. And I just felt like this sort of mass connection to people that I had never felt anywhere else. And literally when I, when we all went back to our homes, went back to, you know, our own form of like, self isolation, self preservation, it was like, I'm like, damn, I really miss everybody. Like, I felt my safest being myself in that space.
>> Myrna McCallum : That's really powerful. And interestingly enough, I've heard a number of people say the same thing. I mean, this morning I had a meeting already with Tegan, Dr. Tegan Brierley, who came from Wales, and they were, presenting with Natalie Saunders on teaching future leaders, preparing a resilient trauma informed justice workforce. And Tegan and I were talking about the work that they're doing over there to bring healing to the conversation of being trauma informed and being a trauma informed nation, and how healing has to be part of that and exploring the ways in which, you know, maybe I, or we go to Wales and do some work with them and collaborate and you know, she said the same thing. She's like, this event was like no other. she says any law conferences or justice conferences or academic events, like, they're just so rigid and not at all, like, they don't invite in emotion and connection in the way that we did. And yeah, I've just gotten so many messages from people about how they feel, like, forever changed by the experience they had. And I've never heard anyone leave a law conference or justice conference or academic conference saying the same thing. So I almost feel like, you know, I achieved, what I set out to do, that in that way, the conference was a success. Was there any standout moments for either of you? Like a thing that you heard or just a moment that you experienced, or multiple experiences or standout moments that just have been, like, you've been Ruminating on since. Since we wrapped the conference on Thursday.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: I wanted to say also, something about what you were talking that Tegan said to you. Dr. Tegan. And what you were saying, Ally Because for me, I really think one of the strongest parts of colonialism and racial capitalism, are professionalism. And these are ideas that we, I think as ah, collectives, we uphold, without actually coming to an agreement of what is professional for us. And we just go into the script of white supremacy, of what professionalism is. And I think if you also Myrna with your beautiful sleepers and Ally with your Crocs, and me with my Crocs, running around and talking to everyone and truly engaging, you know, the people around us, I think it makes it really clear for me that, those standards of professionalism don't allow us to show up how we truly are. And if we're not showing up how we truly are, the connections that happen are superficial too. Because I think that's why we're also feeling so connected to everyone. Because if you saw me running around at the Summit in the same outfit, I take my dogs out, you know, I definitely feel closer to you than if you see me, like, in my Sunday best, that I only reserve for when I'm having to mask, you know, when I'm having to, convince people that I'm smart, that no matter what, I can bring something to the table, et cetera. And I really, really like that. So that's something that for me, actually really stands out. And I, I love with my heart, because, yeah, I've always said, like, professionalism is just a tool of control, you know, and, it's. It's racist at its core. And I love that all of these happened like that, you know?
>> Myrna McCallum : Well, I mean, I think the lack of formality, can create like a familial kind of connection between people. Like, you don't need to mask to be in the space. In fact, we don't want you to mask. We want you to show up. And one thing, Tegan when we met this morning, was just how people felt safe to be emotional, to show their emotions, their emotional connection to the subject matter. She's like, you don't get that at law, justice and academic conferences. You do not get that at all. And, people are. Tend to be so guarded and. And you know, that doesn't happen at my events. They. They don't. In that way, I feel very much. I created a space for people. I set a tone. And like most, most people reflected that and I also think about, you know, how a lot of people were kind of expressing sadness and disappointment that this is my last justice's trauma. Because I'm like, it's a. It's a lot of financial risk. It's a huge thing to carry. Right. Like, you know, we haven't looked at the numbers yet, but this event costs, like, a lot of money. At least a couple hundred thousand, if not more. I'm assuming more, probably closer to, like 250. And, that comes from my savings. Like, I could have bought Alicia a house, put a down payment on a house for her. and instead I did this. And I in no way regret that. I really feel like my purpose involves creating spaces like this and bringing people together. And somehow I've gotten really lucky in that I meet the right people at the right time, and when I invite them in, they say yes. And, And then magic happens. And I have really nothing to do with it. It's all. It's the people who show up and the openness that they show up with. And, you know, I think about Resmaa and so much of what he had to say, but one of the first things like that stuck for me in terms of what he said was like, unless you've got skin in the game, like, you're not really in it and you're not really about it. Like, you need to put something on the line. Like, you need to lose something or be willing to lose something. If you're not doing that well, you're not really. You're not really doing anything. You're not really about this, whatever the thing is. Right. And, when he said it, I was sitting next to him and I was like, yeah, okay, I'm about this, like, to the tune of, like, $300,000. I'm about this, you know, and so, like, nobody does what I did. Nobody does that. No one has. And I've said it many times. I created a thing that I never saw. I. I created a space that no one ever created for me. And a lot of it was really driven by my. My. My culture, my indigeneity, you know, my people and the needs of my people and the ways in which we're relational and we need more relational spaces. And really, that was one of the goals for this event. And I think I knocked it out, of the park.
>> Ally Hrbachek: Yeah, I think we did an absolutely great job bringing it, you know, making it. Making a Summit of this size, which, you know, costed you just over $350,000. Yeah. Because, you know, you paid for tech costs, which was $16,000, speaker costs, which was just over $40,000. You flew everyone, all the speakers here, which is over just about $20,000. You know, the venue cost alone was $144,000. You know, all these. All these things add up, and you made it happen by yourself. So I think you should be absolutely proud of yourself for being able to do that and know that, you know, it's not being taken for granted. Like, you change so many people's lives, mine and Mariana's included. And I can't wait to continue the work. And maybe it won't be in the form of a Justice as Trauma Summit but, you know, it might become smaller, more global initiatives with smaller groups of people. because, yes, content. I, you know, last year and the year before that, I'm like, yes, let's do it. I'm, full force. Let's go for it all over again. And I definitely was behind, you know, trying to push you towards doing it again. But this year, after us doing it all on our own, zero corporate sponsorships, I'm like, yeah, why. Why would we do this again when, you know, when it just takes so much from us in order to make it happen? And, there's no community support. Like, yes, there are individuals who do support the work, but we need people who are willing to show up and also assist financially. Because as much as we say the m money doesn't make the world go round, it definitely helps us make this possible. And without corporate sponsorships, I just. I don't want to. I don't want to see you go through that stress again. I don't want to see us go through that stress again. Because Mariana and I just sat there sometimes thinking, how can we do this and make this as successful? How can we get it out there further? How can we convince people to give us money? Whether it's grants, whether it's, partnerships, collaborations, whatever it might be. And, yeah, it's just. It's really hard making the money make sense when there's no one who's showing up for you in that way.
>> Myrna McCallum : Yeah, I think for me it was like, what was really a challenge, and really hard for me, like, on, emotional level. Like, I ended up feeling super demoralized at various points, as the both of you know. I would reach out to some foundations and organizations whose work is to at least their mandates as they support this kind of work, to see if they want to collaborate, to see if they want to partner in some way. And and to offer reciprocity like I offer them. I offered them some things in return. And, you know, like, for the most part, people didn't even reply to me. Like, not even a. Nope. Just didn't even acknowledge the request. one actually finally replied to me on the last day of the Summit when it was already over. And, like, the specific request to them was about tech support, so that I wanted to be able to record all of the sessions so ultimately, at the end of the day, we could add it to our library and we could share it with people so people who couldn't attend can watch it later. And I said to them, you know, if you help me with tech support, because it was about, what, almost $35,000. If we were to. Gonna. If we were gonna do that, I will give your organization, like, free access to all these videos, that you can use to share with all your teams and for training purposes, whatever. Like, and just nothing. Like, not a response, nothing. And, yeah, that really hurt me. And I, you know, I choked with a few people. I was like, have I been canceled? And nobody told me that, oh, we're canceling Myrna. because it's. It's. I'm okay with hearing no, you know, no, can't do it. No, not this year, no, whatever. But, like, to not even respond to me or to wait until it's all finished to send me, like, some kind of. I don't know, that really hurt.
>> Myrna McCallum : And it caught. Like, for me, it caught it. I start to question whether I have anything of value to offer. it's one of those, like, pick me, pick me, choose me moments. You know? And I fucking hate that. Like, see me. See the value I'm offering, see what I'm trying to do and show up and help me and support me and be part of this, because if you're part of it, people who, like, look to you for things are going to go, what if you're a part of it? There must be something here that we should be looking at, too. and when I get, like, crickets, nothing, not an ac, nothing, it just leaves me going, like, do I even offer anything? Like, do I have anything of value for anybody? it does. It does one of those numbers on me, which I think is just the human experience. I think anybody would feel that way in those circumstances. And still, yes, in spite of all that, in spite of being ignored, I still made it happen and kind of like, you know, okay, you don't want to support this. I'm still going to make it happen, and it's going to be a success. And so, yeah, I feel. I just feel grateful for the opportunity to have made the income to allow me to do something like this. It's a gift to the people who attended. It's a gift to the speakers. It's, It's a gift to myself because I felt really, like, inspired and transformed. And I don't think I. Like, my other Jack conferences have been really awesome, but there was something about this one, and I'm not even sure I know what it is, that left me feeling like, whoa, this was different. And the insights have just been, like, coming like rapid fire. I think about Esther's words and Resmaa's words and Dr. Jabr's words, and, you know, like, so many different people I was listening to, I'm like. Like, oh, my God, I can hear them and I can hear what they're saying and what does this mean? And I need to reflect on it. And like, you, you two noticed I've been, like, putting out more TikToks and Instagram videos because I want to talk about it, so I still feel inspired.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: I wanted to tell you, too. It's because you've also changed. You've grown so much. And even since I met you, I think you've never stopped searching for truth. You know, you embrace these questions, and you keep going and you keep going, and I think you're a truth seeker. And when you just want answers, regardless if you're gonna love these answers or not, it will take you places to meet other people that are like that. And, I always tell you, you have such a big spiritual authority, and it only makes sense to me that, the people who cannot deal with that, either because they don't agree, either because they're jealous or because they're, intimidated, you know, they remove themselves. And then you encounter people with great spiritual authority, as well as many of these speakers that we had. And because they. They speak to the human experience. But I think it's more than just the human experience that we're having there. It reminds me of also something that Lance said, comparing us to, mushrooms. And he's saying, when you see a mushroom, you think you're seeing a full body, but in reality, you're only seeing a member of a huge interconnected network. And that's how we are, too. Our ancestors are also in the land, and we're all interconnected, and we depend on each other. So I think, you know, when you go into that network of, you Know that, like, spiritual, that depth inside of you that's connected to the land, to ancestors, to spirit, to creator. You will meet people like that, you know, and the people who are not, therefore, that will remove themselves and open the space for. For these incredible people that showed up for. For the Summit for us, and that showed up with their whole heart. Because many speakers, would come behind, you know, the desk and be like, what can I do for you? How can we help? Can we do this? Can we do that? And it means a lot, you know, to have these huge, you know, iconic people see your humanity and see you running around and being thankful and being just so human. Just so human. Me and Mari were talking to that. In which other conference or event you can walk around and sit next to and have conversations with people like this. You know, people want but an eye to spend also thousands of dollars to go to a concert, to the VIP area to just get, like, a drop of sweat of, you know, which celebrity. I'm like, where else do you get to have lunch and have conversations with Esther, with Resmaa you know, with all of these incredible people that were so open and so friendly and so genuine, in their. In their conversations and in their connections and in their reciprocity, you know?
>> Ally Hrbachek: Yeah. I would also say one of the biggest things that was different this year is, like, we didn't have, an event planner this year. It was literally just the three of us making every single decision. And every single decision in the Summit was made with care, was made with intention, and we were very, very intentional about decolonizing the space. And I think that really paid off and showed and the experience everyone took away from this with every presenter and speaker that stayed and enjoyed the whole Summit introduced themselves to us, and just the conversations we got to engage in. Oh, my gosh, was it so rewarding and so fulfilling? Like, I got to sit at a table with Resmaa and Leslie and you and then a bunch of other people and engage in this. These deep, meaningful, profound conversations. And I was like, oh, my God, whenever will I get to do things like this again? And I don't know when or if it'll happen again, but I'm holding out hope that it will happen again sometime soon.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: And to me, it's also very beautiful to see people who. I think that they are so smart and that they know so much to have so much. Like, what I was saying that you are, like, open to learning that these people are also so open and, like, eager to learn more and more. And more. And from other people and learning more perspectives and knowing that you don't know everything, that, you know, that every conversation with every person can add to you. I think it's like cultural humility, something that we talked a lot about at the conference, and that, everybody have something to teach you.
>> Myrna McCallum : You know, since this event, I've really. I've really been thinking a lot about a number of the presenters. And there's lots of wisdom in what they shared. But there have been just some lines that have really stayed with me. I've been reflecting on. And I know as I think about it over the days, new, new speak, like other speakers and other things that were spoken will. Will sit with me and, experiences. And I want to comment on a few of them. Like, you know, Res was saying, like, unless you put something of yours on the line, like, you're not really in it. You know, you're not really in this. Like, you gotta put something in. You gotta be willing to lose something. To be doing this work, to be doing the work of racial justice, of liberation, of justice, of, you know, healing of whatever it is. Right. Like, you gotta be in it. And, that has stuck with me because it requires, questions around accountability and responsibility. What is my accountability? What is my response? What am I willing to do? What am I willing to sit with? What am I willing to confront? Right?
>> Myrna McCallum : Right? And if I'm not willing to do that stuff, then at least be honest about it and, like, you know, take the exit, whatever it is. Right? Because he also said that if you can't do it, say you're not gonna do it. But, like, be. Be real, be honest. and that really sat with me. And of course, every time he says the thing about, like, what are you pouring into? Can you pour into something that can hold the thing that you're pouring into it? And that applies on so many levels. Like, if you're trying to pour empathy and humility and humanity into a system that is, to borrow from, Esther Arma's words, trauma, addicted. Can it even hold that? What are you pouring for when it just is like a sieve and it goes through it can't hold what you're trying to pour into it. So be intentional about where you pour and what you pour and what you give. be. Be, conscious about, like, how far your efforts really can or can't go. Or, you know, be really clear about where you're giving and where you're not getting back. Right? Like, reciprocity is so important. And what's capable of reciprocity. Who is capable of reciprocity? Who is not? when we think about systems change and systems structures, and then, you know, Esther Arma saying, like, can a system that is trauma addicted ever be trauma informed? She doesn't think so. I mean, she. I don't think she thinks so. We'll find out. She's going to be on the podcast. You know, she used the example of, sexual violence against women. Like, we asked them to tell their story and then again, and then again and then again, and then we question their. Their story and then we challenge it and then we put another set of facts to them to undermine their credibility or their, their memory. And, and we do it again. And then we do it again. We do it again. And you know, I've been really like, sitting with her question, can systems that are trauma addicted be trauma. Be. Ever become trauma informed? I don't have an answer, but I've been thinking about that question
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: And you know, now I'm thinking also about it for every system because we're talking about the justice system. But I can remember, Mari was talking about a speaker that talked about, fictional triggers. And I'm thinking about Hollywood and you know, it's absolutely trauma addicted and how the shows we watch and everywhere, you know, and I remember Esther said also how you claim to want to, you know, be trauma responsive if you depend on it to work next time. And you know, you basically depend on it. And it's so, it's so real. I love also something that Resmaa says that give. Pour into your people and give the bare minimum to the machine. The bare minimum.
>> Myrna McCallum : Yeah. Resmaa offered us, I think, so much wisdom. Like, so much wisdom and truth and, And I know for some people it's hard to hear when it is just so. He's very blunt. Like, he tells. He doesn't mince words. He tells you like it is. Right. And however you're responding to that is really your problem. Like, it's not. And I love how he said, don't come to me after this asking me for tips or come crying to me or whatever. Because he felt a certain kind of way about what I said. Like, you need to just sit with yourself and like, think about that. And you, know that it was. It's just so blunt. And, and I tried to practice it when we talked about, you know, when we were talking about like, belonging and meaningful inclusion and whatnot. And then there was a woman in the audience, a white lady who Said it twice. Like, she said it in the hallway. Pulled kind of me and Charmaine and a couple others aside to say, I know, I know what, what I would do. here's, here's an easy. Here. I have an answer for you around how we do this. And she's like, if you're sitting at a table of all white people, you bring an indigenous person to the table. And I was really put off by that.
>> Myrna McCallum : And. But we're walking out, so I wasn't about to get into it. And it was like the end of a day and. But then she said it again in a session, I think, with Sarah when they were presenting on liberation and Love. She's like, you're at an all white table. Bring an indigenous person. And I couldn't keep my mouth shut. I had to say something. So I, like, grabbed the mic and I said, look, stop, stop right there. Like, that's. I know it's well meaning, but it's harmful, it's tokenistic. It feels that way. I've been one of those, like, indigenous people dragged to an all white table. I know there's other people in here, people of color, brown people, black people who have also been dragged to all white tables. It does a lot of harm if it's done with. If it's done the wrong way, and it's often done the wrong way. It comes off very tokenistic, performative. It's not meaningful. And what I wish, you know, white people would do instead, when they see themselves in, at an all white table, decision making table, leadership table, is sit there and go like, why is this room all white? Why is this room all white? And have a conversation about that. Start there. Don't bring in a person of color just to make it appear diverse or just to be able to say yourself, say to yourself, oh, well, we reflected an indigenous voice because we have this person on the advisory council or this person at the leadership table. Unless it's done with intention, with, collaboration, and done in a way where it's been set up to communicate meaningful transformation that is reflective of indigenous experience or black experience or racialized experience, then it's all tokenism. And so she tried to push. She was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. She tried to push against that. And I'm like, look, I'm not attacking you. I'm not. This is not really about you. It's about your idea. But you reflected the idea so many other people have. And I just, I need you to just sit with this. Like, you don't need to defend yourself because this isn't about you and this isn't casting whatever light on you. Just think about what I said. Just sit with it. And that was where it ended. I don't know that I saw her again. I don't. Hopefully she didn't leave. Hopefully she was able to sit in that discomfort about what, why that was her response, why she felt like that was such a great idea. I mean, that's the work. I mean, if we're really ever talking about racial justice and equity and belonging and inclusion, like this is the work that white people have to do and they need to do it independent of us, as racialized people, as indigenous people, as queer people, as whatever. Right. Like they need to do it independent. They got to do that work on their own. That's their work. It's not for them to come to us asking us for tips, like Resmaa said.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: I just wanted to ask Ally, because I remember during our session she said a couple of things that I really liked about that about. I think you called it the golden ticket or something like that, diversity or like the tokenism. I just, I remember you were really talking about that and about how, basically it was, it's just to like certify, you know, the table, or to like the proximity, you know, that, what allows like a company or like, let's say a table or a group of people, to do. Because now they are quote, unquote, diverse.
>> Ally Hrbachek: Like when I use a golden ticket. Hold on.
>> Myrna McCallum : Before you get into it and respond to Mariana, I just want to say, for people who are listening, who weren't maybe weren't at this conference. What we're talking about now is Mariana and Alicia co led a session on building solidarity across borders, Deconstructing legacies of colonialism. That was the focus of the workshop the two of you did together. So Ally go, yeah, I guess,
>> Ally Hrbachek: in short, like when I mentioned the golden ticket, I meant that in the way of like, you know, institutions or even small groups of people. Like when they bring in a person of color, whether it's black, brown, whatever it might be, you know, we're their golden ticket. Because then you know, a group of white people and then you insert a brown person, it's like, okay, now all of a sudden you're diverse. Now it's your accepting. Now it's all this and that. And now because you represent yourself as a diverse, welcoming and institution, now you can unlock, you know, the grants, the money, the resources, the people the advertisements you open up this world with your little like, golden ticket can also be used, synonymous with tokenism. So yeah, it was just, it's just one of those barriers that are in this world. And while we benefit these institutions, these institutions are not necessarily a benefit to us.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: And it also makes me think about resource extraction. No, because at the end of the day, it's even more about that. What you were saying, I, was like, When you said now they can apply to all of these grants and now they get to be in all of these spaces that otherwise they would not be maybe quote unquote invited in. And at the end of the day, it's about resource extraction. How else can we access more resources?
>> Ally Hrbachek: Exactly, exactly. It was a really great session that Mariana and I co hosted together. Hopefully we get to do it again. But across Canada, maybe on the other side of the world, listeners bring us to your homelands. But Mariana, like, we haven't had a chance to like, really debrief this yet. But like, you're like, I'm curious, like, who are, like your top five speakers? Like, who stands out to you? Like, who shook your world and opened up your mind to like, different things you never really thought about?
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: Okay, I'm going to start saying I loved Bernadette. Bernadette, if you're listening to this, I love you. I feel connected to you. I've had many dance classes and yours is the best I ever had. and not because it was, about dancing, because I love dancing, but because it was so intentional in how the way we move our body helps us release or hold trauma, tension, masking. And just all of these ways in which we force ourselves to show up to the world that mean not showing up for yourself, basically. I loved Esther.
>> Myrna McCallum : Maybe before you talk about Esther, let's just say, Bernadette. We're talking about Bernadette Betchi. She came, from, I believe she's from Ottawa. She came to present on Transforming Trauma into Collective Justice. I understand her session was really well received. I missed it because I was sick for part of the event and had to leave. But I understand it was really well received. It was really popular. But then she also stepped in for us when Moana had to step up, away because of a medical, kind of emergency. And. And so two people, two of our presenters actually stepped in, to fill a spot for Moana's healing sessions. And one of them was Bernadette. And can you just say a little bit about what, Mariana, what Bernadette brought and what she offered and kind of what was the reception for the people in the room, including yourself.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: First of all, she is super welcoming, right? And she has this energy that she is generous enough to give to everyone, regardless of who they are, to make them feel like she's been your friend ever since. You know, she feels like an old friend to everybody. And even some people ask me how we met, like, prior to the conference. And I had to say, we just met. we're now just bonded, hopefully for life. but her session was about, storing tension in the body and how we carry things whether we speak to them or not, and how they stay with us, literally trapped in our bodies if we don't, release them. Whether that is, you know, writing, processing in any way of creation, participating in creation, basically, with nature and movement. So in this session, she took us on a little trip to Africa. we went Cameroon, through Nigeria, Ghana with songs. And in each song that she would play, she would, translate it for us. And she would explain to us, the steps that we were making. When she started the workshop, she said we were. She asked us to please think about something that was heavy on us, that we. That's been weighing us down, that is being heavy on your shoulders, on your back, on your neck. And she asked us to dance with it. And by the end of the session, we all were dancing in circle. And what she asked it was that at the end, we're going to go in circle and leave what is weighing us down in community. So once we. Community, help you lift something up, it becomes less heavy. And basically that's what we did in a circle. And at the beginning, I could see how people were shy or maybe, resistant, you know, to move around the room or maybe make eye contact while you're dancing, you know. And by the end, everybody was moving so freely around the room and looking at each other and crying and offering each other so much love through, you know, just the movement and the energy that we were creating. And, it was close to end. We were close to lunchtime. And Bernadette was like, do you all want to do another one? Because, you know, she finished and we all stood there, like, more, you know. And she did another song and. And she kept making it, like, rewinding it a little bit so it could be longer and everybody had time to go in the middle. It was a very, very beautiful session. And I really felt lighter. I even told them, coming to the end of the Summit it's emotional for me too. And the fear of not living up to expectations, maybe the pressure we put on ourselves to alleviate. Probably feel the same and more to, you know, carry this dream that you have Myrna with with you and, and try to help to bring it to life. And I was telling them how it's scary, you know, when, when the odds are against you and, and. But that I felt a lot lighter and a lot more cared for after the session. And we were like, basically were crying together in their room. So it was really beautiful.
>> Myrna McCallum : That's awesome. And then you were about to talk about Esther. We had Esther Arma come from, Ghana. Yeah, she came all the way from Ghana to be with us. And, she was my closer on emotional justice. Like, I deliberately chose her to be my closer because we saw her presentation on emotional justice back when we were down in South Africa, in September. And I was like, this has to be like.
>> Myrna McCallum : She has to be our closer. And she was there for the whole thing. She was amazing, profound and incredible. Anyway, I'm giggling because Allie is like, hilarious right now, but you were going to say something about Esther. She closed on emotional justice and brought a lot of, like, real truths to us. and also, no mincing words. What was your experience of Esther's presentation?
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: there were certain speakers that no matter what was going on, I was determined to not missing out on. And one of them was Esther. And there was something really specific that I will carry on with me. And is this special calling to, white women in their tenacity, to do everything but to fight racism? I really loved how she calls us in into our power and then once, you know, she's there, into giving you and reminding you of all the power that you have as an individual. How come you're not using this power? You know, how come you're still pretending to have so many questions when, you know, when you have questions that really matter for you, maybe about your banking, be about, your children's schools, may be about whatever it is that really matters to you and you don't have any issue in like, going to search it up, calling whoever you need to call, not receiving a no for an answer. Use that same tenacity to fight racism and to fight anti blackness and to, you know, for collective liberation instead of for your individual advancement in life. I really love how she said it like that. Use that tenacity. in Spanish, we have a word. I don't know if you have it in English and I just don't know it yet, but is Tenas, which is like. It's like the shoulder of tenacity. And. And you can be tenas. And when something is tenas is relentless. It's severe, it's militant, you know, and that's how I want to be, you know, And I think Esther is really direct also, and she really. When she's talking to white woman, she addresses white woman like that. But I love so much, and I take so many of those teachings to myself and how they apply to me and how I'm, maybe lacking or thinking that I lack tenacity in certain things, when I know it's inside of me for the things that matter. So, like, accessing it, you know, and. And stepping into it for. For the good of creation, you know, for everything that's good.
>> Myrna McCallum : Okay. Those are a couple of your standouts so far. I know there are more, but what about you, Alicia?
>> Ally Hrbachek: I unfortunately didn't have the privilege of watching all, ah, like, a lot of the speakers I wanted to see, just because we're fielding a lot of things behind the scenes. But no matter what, like, I made it a priority to see Resmaa and Esther and. And Dr. Jabr Dr. Jabr is a speaker. Ah.
>> Ally Hrbachek: A brilliant human being. I had the privilege of coming across at a different conference this past year in M. Costa Rica, and she was unable to attend, in person due to the same political circumstances. And, she attended virtually. And when I think of virtual. Yep, go ahead.
>> Myrna McCallum : Can I just say, for people who didn't attend and who are wondering. So Dr. Samah Jabr is a Palestinian psychiatrist, and she delivered the opening keynote on day three, and that title of it was Enduring Trauma, Collective Healing, Psychiatry, Resistance, and the Path to Dignity. That was what she presented on Holly.
>> Ally Hrbachek: Yeah. and, like, generally, when I think about virtual speakers, I'm like, oh, great. Like, just another person talking at you, not with. With you. And, we really. I was like. I wasn't sure how it was gonna be, but, like, when I saw her the first time and heard her talk, although I can't remember explicitly what her content was, I remember the way she made me feel and the way I felt after hearing her talk was validated, and she really roots her work in humanity, and. And, I was just like, she's so profound. She has to come to our next Summit Because when I went to the Costa Rica conference, it was, like, a couple of weeks before, JAT 2025. And I'm like, I'm gonna keep her in mind if we ever do another. Justice is trauma. So when it came time to plan Justice is Trauma 2026, I was like, Dr. Jabr she has to be there. She has to present. She has such, she's such a profound voice. And her message is so strong and rooted in humility and kindness. And I wish she could have been there. But, like, when she finished her virtual presentation, she got a standing ovation. I've never seen a virtual speaker get a standing ovation before. Oh, except for, Myrna, our Summit founder. And, yeah, so it was just, it was so amazing. And, you could tell that so many people in the audience were able to connect with, everything she was saying. And despite, you know, despite all the barriers against her, how she can still show up and be herself, her best self, and still lead with kindness and humility and dignity. It's just like, it speeds, speaks, it speaks wonders and like, who she is and the work she, she, she stands for. And, you know, I find in the work that we do, like this professionalism sort of what, you know, we're supposed to grow up and become professionals. And you know, from relating to Esther's work, Esther was like, emotional illiteracy are, is like essentially professionalism. Like, that's, that's what Esther said. And that really like, hit home to me because there's no community and individualism. But all, Dr. Jabr talks about is, like, how humility can be rooted in our profession. But also, further to that, she also talks a lot about community care, not self care, because self care is individualistic. Community care is where the healing and wellness is at. Community care is where the medicine is. And I love that shift. I love moving away from this multi million dollar, self care initiative that essentially was founded by like, a bunch of white women to promote, you know, these essentially superficial ways of healing that we're told to heal. And actually the real healing, the real work is in community care. And I'm just gonna carry that message with me forward in the rest of my life because I stand by her and I stand by her message completely.
>> Myrna McCallum : Okay. So I really loved her as well. And I'm hoping they'll come a day when we could actually be in the same room together. And I'm gonna hold that hope that that will happen. I mean, she also joined our panel that we had the next. I think that afternoon we did a panel with her and, Leslie, Priscilla, you, Alicia and I were on that panel on, From Wounds to Wisdom, Intergenerational Healing and Systemic Liberation across Families, communities, and systems. Her voice was so important on both panels. But I took some pictures of her slides, and I want to say, you know, one of her slides was focused on how community is medicine. And that was such a positive, profound, and timely reminder for me. she says, colonialism targets social bonds. Solidarity rebuilds them. Healing is collective, not only individual. Community provides protection, meaning belonging and shared memory. Crisis activates solidarity, volunteering and cultural expression. Stories, art and cultural trend and culture transform trauma into strength. And I was like, yes. And I really loved how so many different speakers in different ways, integrated art, as a means of healing. Right. And for those of us who are, you know, are artists in some way, like, that totally resonates. and also, you know, when she says, like, community is medicine, it really echoes or it worked well with what Esther said about how isolation is the death of liberation. And it just got me thinking about how so many of us are isolated, so many of us don't build community. Isolation is seductive. It's easy to retreat, go into the home and just never leave. You order Uber Eats, you order your groceries, you do, you know, hit decline when somebody calls you for a social call. Right. Like, it's easy to stay isolated. But, like, hearing the reminder that community is medicine from Dr. Jabr and then hearing from Esther how isolation is the death of liberation, I need to remember this if I'm about community, if I'm about relationships, and if I'm about liberation. And so that was really profound, and it was a challenge to me to go, I need to actually do what I do very differently going forward if I'm about this. Right. And, Dr. M. Jabr also said, colonial trauma refers to the enduring psychological, social, and political harm caused by colonization, occupation, and structural violence. In Palestine, political violence continues through displacement, dispossession, and dehumanization. We understand trauma not as an individual pathology, but as a collective and political phenomenon. And when I read that, I was like, man, that totally mirrors the indigenous experience in the Americas. Like, exactly. She could have been talking about Canada. She could have been talking about the US she could have been talking about South America, Central America, like, so much of. Like, there's so much connection between us and others who are. Are enduring oppression right now, and we watch it, and genocide and all the things. And she also talked about the shortcomings of the DSM and saying, specifically, I know she said a lot, but one of the things that really grabbed my attention and kind of stopped me was when she said, humiliation is a form of trauma. And I thought about how many of us have experienced humiliation, whether. And usually connected to, like, powerlessness or something like, whether as children, whether it's in the workplace, whether it's in public. Right. Humiliation is a form of trauma. And we don't talk about that ever. And we need to talk about that. And also, like, you know, when we talk later in the afternoon with Leslie, who is about, like, child. The liberation of children, and about challenging adult supremacy, how often do we humiliate our kids and we don't even think twice about it when we, like, shame them in a public place or we. We dismiss them. And I had told people about this book, Healing Collective Trauma by Thomas Huebel, and he's got this quote that stays with me and that I share a lot because a lot of people are like, well, I don't do harm. I don't do harm. Or where do I harm? Where. Where do I harm? And I will say, look. To dismiss, to deny, to minimize, to willfully forget, or to disregard someone is to uphold the institutions of inequality and inhumanity. Like, that's what it is. So if you ever want to know if you're harming someone, did you just dismiss what they brought to you? Did you deny them? Did you minimize their experience, that you willfully forget it or otherwise disregard them? Then you're harming.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: Period.
>> Myrna McCallum : Period.
>> Myrna McCallum : So, yeah, right. Esther. Dr. Jabr was there and of course, always Resmaa But was there anything else that stood out for you, Alish?
>> Ally Hrbachek: like, aside from Resma? Because I could talk about that man forever. I also, like, off the top of my head, who immediately comes to mind is like, Leslie, Leslie Priscilla, Latinx parenting. I love. I love her so much. She's such a, a relational human being. And even her team, in the manner in which they communicated with us when we were, going through the logistics of getting her here, it was. It was so amazing, so easy, so nice. Like, the whole experience from start to finish was, like, wonderful. Like, it didn't feel. Well, it didn't feel transactional, and it felt more relational. And that sort of decolonial work that she engages in really shows with her and her team. And then even when she, like, arrived to Vancouver and she came to the hotel, she was just as herself. And she's like, hello. Like, how's it going? How are you doing? Let's go get supper. Like, let's go hang out. Let's talk. You know, let's do the things. And, it was wonderful because not only do I See her as like a mentor and a leader and I really look up to her, but she was just very, like, she was just very much herself. And I appreciated that. So I love Leslie. And there was this other presenter who was there. I didn't have the. I didn't have the ability to watch his presentation. But, Robert Kozak, just assistant professionals,
>> Myrna McCallum : Radical hope for the future us.
>> Ally Hrbachek: Yep. And so while I don't know what his presentation was like or how it went, him as an individual. Oh, my gosh. The sweetest, most profound, like, sweetest, sweetest human being I have ever come across. And usually I'm gonna say this. I don't feel safe with white men, but I felt safe with him. And he attended, my workshop on core values and the medicine wheel. And he came up to me afterwards, the next day, and he's like, I've been thinking a lot about your, your practice, and I really put work and effort into, your workshop. And he's like, I was thinking about it and when I went back to my hotel that night, he's like, I made you guys origami birds and flowers. Like little paper origami birds and flowers. And it was like, so innocent, so sweet. I instantly just felt safe with this person. And I don't normally feel safe with white men. And so that just really stood out to me because I don't get to see people naturally in a kind nature.
>> Myrna McCallum : Mariana said frogs. He also made frogs. There are so many standouts. I couldn't attend all of them because, like, everyone knows who attended. I was sick. I had to leave a couple times quite early. But like Leone, Leonie Smith, who spoke on a non violent communication approach to language is liberation. Leone is a powerhouse. Like, holy crap. Anybody who's interested in nonviolent communication and those techniques really need to bring Leone in to, like, teach their people a new, way to communicate.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: And Leonie and Priscilla, I just love also how the workshops all complement each other. Because also when you were talking about Priscilla, Leslie earlier, Ally, I was thinking about one sentence from her that also really stuck to me was every behavior is a strategy to get a, ah, need met. And when you think about that, it also changes how you see everything, basically. Even if it's a good or bad strategy, whatever, that's up to you to decide. But, you know, it's a strategy and it's there. And then I'm thinking about Leonie, how she will, teach us how to address the strategies. But they all complement each other so well. You know, and thinking about one speaker takes me to another speaker, to another session, to another workshop. And, yeah, it was also my favorite curation that we had. And I think that's. It's also the most speakers you've had, right, compared to the first and the second year?
>> Myrna McCallum : Yeah, I think. I think so. I think for sure, I had about 30 speakers. But, yeah, definitely. Like, I couldn't have designed it better. It really was a, Tegan and I talked about it this morning. It was like a progression down. It was a journey. So step one, you go into this space. Okay, if you want to level up on that, go into this session, because it's going to build on the thing you heard here. And then the next session is going to build on that. It's going to build on that, and then there's going to be a really big moment right here. And that was when we had everyone in the same room in the Stanley Park Ballroom. And then here was another spot if you wanted to go here and do this work. And so, yeah, I thought it was. I thought it was, like, genius. And. And it. It also was very accidental because I didn't tell these people, I want you to talk about this. This is what I want you to bring. they propose these things, and it just all fit together so well. Like, puzzle. Phenomenal. So, I mean, we could go on and talk about all the different speakers. Fortunately for people who are interested in this, I did record, all the speakers who were in the Stanley Park Ballroom. So the big room. So people can come and eventually, ultimately in the next month or so, come to our website, and then they will see the video library there, and then they can access recordings. Yeah, I thought it was, an incredible event like no other. they'll probably never be anything like it again. But that's not to say that we cannot, you know, create something. It may be smaller, it may be. I'm not sure. It may be more curated for certain audiences. Like. Like, I also love Just Justice. Jasmine Akbarelli's session. she did an opening keynote on Compassion from the Bench, reimagining courtroom practices in an era of collective harm. And, you know, it took a lot of courage for her to show up and talk on something that not a lot of judges are talking about. It was incredible. And for people who just needed to have, like, an experience, that stepped away from the learning and the, you know, the active listening, there was the sound baths. We had a sound bathroom for the first time ever. And I didn't have an opportunity to go because I was sick and I had to leave a lot. And we had a low stem room. but the feedback on people who access those spaces is so good. Like, so, like, those spaces ended up allowing for people to do some kind of reconnection with themselves that I don't think they would have otherwise been able to do. And so that was pretty powerful. Everyone needed a moment to just, like, let go of something, pick something new up and let go of other things. And that was really. That was exactly what this was supposed to be. And, yeah, I loved it. And I know that people are going to talk about it for a long time, and I just want to shout out Ally because, after her presenting one day she was offered a job, essentially. Like, somebody came to her and said, oh, we got an opening for something. You'd be perfect for it. And then, I don't know, like, in all the busyness of things, there was no follow up. but they know how to find you, Alicia. So I might end up losing you, for some hours anyway, if they offer you, you know, something really sweet. But like, that. That is a testament to just how impactful you were. And if I can add one final note, for me, that was like, a really profound experience. Experience, and maybe made this different from others, is that at various points in time, people came to me to give me gifts of protection. A woman, I don't know, approached me and gave me a stone. And she told me about how I should, like, use this stone to protect myself. And it was right before I was, like, speaking on something, and it was incredible. And I've been carrying that stone around all this morning. You know, Charmaine came and she brought me a couple bundles of sage, and she was staying with me. So every morning, every night, my house was, like, full of, like, smoke, sage smoke. The Maori group. Terry did a, ceremony. He said it was important for him to do something. He wanted to gift us, and that was such a powerful thing. And then he left me with a prayer of protection. And there was, like, another couple people who gave me gifts of protection. Like, kind of pulled me aside and said, here, I have something for you. And it was all centered around protection, protection, protection. That was a really good reminder that when we are taking certain paths and doing certain things, that same people will either rail against, be resistant to, or just outright ignore. We need to be protected as we walk these roads. And, that was really profound. And so the blanket that Terry gave me, I'm gonna find somebody out there who can frame it and put it in a little glass case. And, because I don't want it collecting dust, and I don't want to fold it and put it away because it was such a beautiful story around that particular design about where, you know, clarity meets, you know, communication, where light meets darkness, where transformation takes place. And I thought it just totally echoed how. Where I'm at right now, like, in. In my life and in my work. And the two of you were gifted something in that ceremony.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: I wanted to say that for your blanket, too. There's something I really loved that I think Kaylee said, and I think especially important for you, Myrna, because in this, I think you're someone that is leading the way, and it's holding the door open. She said the moment, for the people that are still coming home. And it makes me emotional because I think also that's a lot of what we see at this Summit is people that have been searching for these, you know, and finding it and how vulnerable and open. And I see how many people, when they look at you, it's like, yeah, they're looking also for answers, you know, And I really love that. That was like a. Ah, how you say, like, validating that and, you know, bringing these to. To you, like, to honor that work that. That you're doing.
>> Ally Hrbachek: talking about the Māori gift, I thought that whole thing was so profound. Tere's performed this Haka for us, and I had never seen one in person, let alone been able to experience it the way that we had. And it was so incredible. And I was just in such disbelief that we were experiencing this and experiencing it together, because I love you two the most. And for us to all go through it together was so. Was so profound. And, I got gifted, a necklace with stone that he and Tere and his partner had carved together. And it was a stone around protection and leadership and clearing obstacles in my path. And I. I just thought it. It resonated with me so much, because I feel a lot of obstacles in my life right now, and I'm trying hard to not let it get me down, but I'm still moving forward. And, the Summit reinvigorated, you know, that desire to keep going forward. And then with the ceremony that we went through and experienced together, that also further enforced my desire to keep moving forward. And I think all of our gifts really resonated with each of us profoundly. Because, Mariana, you got, a gift that revolves around art and expression and dancing. Right? So I was just, like, these gifts were called to us, and made for us. And I'm just so grateful for that experience.
>> Myrna McCallum : Yeah. So what I'm going to try to do, some people sent me recordings of, the ceremony and, and the prayer. And so I'm going to see how much of that audio I can insert here at the end of this podcast so people could hear that beautiful language and the beautiful gift that was given to each of us. I felt so recognized, and recognition, I think, is really important. And I hope the two of you felt seen and valued and loved also in that experience, because you are seen and you are valued and you are loved, and this couldn't have been what it was without the two of you. you really were the backbone that made it happen. And I want to say thank you for also taking care of me, like, collaborating with the, with the volunteers to ensure that somebody was assigned to take care of me and bring me tea and bring me a blanket and bring me the things that I needed to be able to be in the conversation. So thank you both for everything you brought. going forward, where should we go from here? What do you want to see happen from here? If we could dream up any possibility, what would you like to see? Let's close on kind of a wish and a dream.
>> Ally Hrbachek: I would like to see us go across Canada and even overseas. I would love to see us take our offerings and give it to community all across Canada. And when it comes to overseas, I feel like going overseas for us would be a huge opportunity for us to learn from all these other indigenous communities. And a part of our work is continuing the growth and learning. I would love to see. See it keep going. And I'm, I don't know, I feel. Feel like there's just so many places we could go, and I don't know. I'm just ready for whatever's next.
>> Myrna McCallum : Mariana.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: I'm really excited for collabs I, really think that. That maybe some of the relationships we had were not so solidified. And I do feel like now, some of these relationships are more solidified. Like, the fact that we are in community is more solidified. and I think I love this idea of collabing with people who are equally excited about the work we're doing, then we are excited about the work they do. I'm really excited to keep working, on our community and keep our community care going.
>> Myrna McCallum : Yeah, I'm with you about community care. I also want to see continued relationships in the form of collaborations, in the form of visiting, people in their communities. Like all the People who came to us. I would love for us to go to them one day and make something beautiful together. I'd love to be able to continue this work in some kind of way that becomes, becomes more accessible and maybe it becomes a traveling, offering that we do for people. I also am really re. Inspired or reinvigorated around getting back to writing my book because I can't tell you how many people stop me to say, I hope you're writing a book. I hope you're writing a book. Which is more of the universe telling me a thing that I've been hearing for a long time. And also like, like I saw the profound, like, impact for the people who came, who were published authors doing book signings and the impact. And like Massey books, like sold out a whole bunch of books. And I love how Patricia like called out our event, on her social media to say like, she goes to a lot of conferences, but this is the only one where she sells out things like she, she makes the most or she sells the most always at art conferences versus any other one. So that says something about the people who were there. Really, really, like, you know, compelled to do the work to, to learn more. And so, you know, to that end, like, Esther wrote a book called Emotional Justice, A Roadmap for Racial Healing. Her book was sold out there. My Grandmother's Hands, Racialized Trauma and the Pathway to Mending Our Hearts and Bodies by Resmaa Menacamp. That one was sold out there. The two of them did a book signing. I bought a few different books and I was like, right. There is also power in writing. And like, it's also a way for people to get access to your own insights and your ideas or your learnings through writing, writing. Like, we all need to write. We all need to create something, offer something that people can access. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's kind of lit a fire under me to get back to writing and get this book back on track. And, and then it also just reminded me like, you know, wellness is a, ah, White woman's multi billion dollar industry. And what, does that mean? It means like voices like ours and faces like ours, lived experiences like ours aren't informing those spaces. And for that reason, more of us need to write our stories or we need to dance our stories or we need to paint our stories. And even if every one of us did that and every one of us became best sellers in all the ways we could, you can become a bestseller in your genre in this space. It's still never going to be enough. We need more of us bringing our voice, bringing our stories. And, you know, we need more of us, like, standing in this light and understanding that we deserve to be there, to be seen, to be heard, to be loved, to be cared for, to be connected. And so that's what I want to see for all of us going forward.
🎵 HAKA AUDIO CUE🎵
>> Tere Davis: A prayer of protection to Hand these Māori treasures over to the family.