Chief Commissioner Buller offers listeners several pieces of sound advice on how to bring a trauma informed approach into their processes as well as several culturally responsive actions lawyers and judges can take right now when working with Indigenous people, particularly women and girls.
The episode discusses Canada's genocide against Indigenous people, sexual assault cases and culture as healing tool for Indigenous people.
Myrna McCallum:
I'm Myrna McCallum, Métis-Cree lawyer and passionate promoter of trauma-informed lawyering. Welcome back to the Trauma-Informed Lawyer Podcast, Season Two.
As you know, I believe that law schools and bar courses are missing a critical competency requirement in their curriculum, trauma-informed lawyering. Becoming a trauma-informed lawyer will, among other things, challenge you to critically reflect on your personal behaviors, beliefs and biases, call on you to positively transform the way you approach advocacy, guide your practice to avoid doing further harm to others, and ask that you commit to remaining open to learn new and old knowledge you didn't know you needed before beginning your career. Your education starts right here, right now. Transcripts for Season Two of the Trauma-Informed Lawyer Podcast have been generously sponsored by the BC Law Foundation.
Welcome back to another episode of the Trauma-Informed Lawyer Podcast. For those of you who pay attention to what's going on here in Canada, while it's been a really heavy time for indigenous people in this country, particularly those of us who went to residential school and maybe hopefully for Canadians generally, who are informed and educated about the Indian residential school system. If you've been listening to the news, you know that the remains of 215 children have been found near the city of Kamloops, at the site of their former Indian residential school, and indigenous people, we know that this is just one discovery at one school. There are the remains of children waiting to be discovered across this country, at other sites of former residential schools. I think what was really shocking for a lot of Canadians was that the number, 215, that's a lot. Also, the youngest appears to be about three years old. That's shocking to Canadians.
None of this is shocking, of course, to indigenous people because we know these have been our stories. We've heard these stories. For those of us who went to residential school, we've really heard those stories. I'd have to say what sort of pisses me off right now is how this government keeps characterizing this finding as a dark chapter in Canada's history. But this is not history, and this isn't some chapter that we've long past closed. This is right here, right now. This is our lives, our lived experience. This is today we're wounded, some are broken, some are healing, some move between wounded and broken and healing. And I'm just really angry, because there have been so many reports on indigenous people and the injustices that we have had to live with, as a result of colonization.
And the more recent reports include the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls to action, as well as the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls Inquiry, which also resulted in a report which included 231 Calls for Justice. These reports, I don't know where they go. I don't see anything happening with them. I don't see the lives of indigenous people changing, particularly indigenous women and girls. There was an Inquiry that happened here in Canada, and a couple years ago, the Inquiry completed its work and submitted a report which included these legal imperatives, also known as Calls for Justice. And the government said that they were going to take action, and that they would have an action plan in a year. Well, it's been two years. They just the other day announced their action plan, which looks super flimsy and doesn't really commit to a whole lot, and is not going to change the reality on the ground, which is indigenous women continue to go missing. Indigenous women continue to turn up murdered. I'm just angry.
So it's been a heavy little bit, and I just thought this is a really good time to share my conversation with you that I had a little while back with Chief Commissioner Marion Buller. Before I introduce her, I want to co-moment and acknowledge Sarah Robinson. I never met Sarah Robinson, but she and I were connected on Instagram and Twitter, and she just seemed like a really wonderful lady. And what I know about her is, a couple of things. One is, she did a talk for The Walrus Talks National Tour on Indigenous Women and the Story of Canada, which is very popular talk. And she was a law student. In addition to that, she also was a 35 year old indigenous woman from Fort Nelson First Nation, and the Saulteaux First Nation in Treaty 8 territory. She died a couple of weeks ago, after a battle with cancer. And although I didn't know her, the news of her passing totally broke my heart because, in her voice and in her energy, she exemplified possibility. So this episode is dedicated to her.
Let me introduce you all to former BC Provincial Court Judge, Marion Buller. She's also a Cree lawyer now, but she was previously serving as the Chief Commissioner for the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls Inquiry here in Canada. She's from Mistawasis First Nation, which is in my home province of Saskatchewan. She's a grandma, an auntie, a sister, a cousin, a mother-in-law, a niece. She is very rooted in relationships, and we had a really cool conversation about the work that she did in the Inquiry. We didn't even get to really touch on the work that she did as a provincial court judge, so I think I'm going to have to have her back, to have that conversation.
What she shared in this conversation was quite powerful and gave really incredible insights and ideas into what lawyers can do, and judges, right here, right now to create space for culturally responsive supports for indigenous people who are in various legal systems. And, how to become aware of the ways in which we are impacted by the traumas of others, and how we could take action when we become impacted so that our mental health can go the distance. I hope that you enjoy this conversation with Marion.
Welcome, Marion Buller, Judge Marion Buller.
Marion Buller:
I'm just really happy to be with you today.
Myrna McCallum:
I'm really happy to have you here, and so, welcome. As I said to you previously, I really hope that this season provides a lot of educational insight and inspiration for people who are doing really difficult work with people who have experienced tremendous traumas. And as I was thinking about some of the voices that I thought would be so helpful to those people, who are figuring it out and asking themselves, "How do I do this, and how do I do this in a good way that does no further harm to people?" Immediately I thought, "Marion Buller. She has done this as the Chief Commissioner, and in other spaces previous to that, but especially I would imagine the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls Inquiry was an experience that was deeply rooted in a lot of trauma. For our listeners, can you give us a little bit of background on what the MMIWG Inquiry was, and why it was necessary?
Marion Buller:
I suppose I can paraphrase our terms of reference. They were quite lengthy, but they can be boiled down to, we were required to inquire into all systemic causes of all types of violence against indigenous women. And also to find ways to commemorate, of course, and make our recommendations in a final report. So that's kind of it, in a nutshell. And it came about as a result of probably about 40 years, as many as 40 years of activism and advocacy by frontline grassroots people. Who said, "We're seeing our women and girls going missing, or being murdered, and nothing's happening. Nobody's doing anything to try to stop this." And so, it took a while of a lot of very concerted, very dedicated people who from all across Canada said, "This Inquiry has to happen."
So we started the Inquiry with, as I say, very long terms of reference, but paraphrased on September 1st, 2016.
We were originally supposed to finish December 31st, 2018, but there were a variety of problems starting up, because the government just simply wasn't ready for the administrative aspects of a National Inquiry. In fact, the National Inquiry started here in my garage, because there were no offices available, no internet, no nothing. So we lost a lot of time at the very beginning, just because of the lack of support, administrative support. And also, the more we got into the work, the more we realized that there was a lot more work that had to be done. We asked the government for two additional years. They said, "No, you can have six months." So we finished on June 30th, 2019.
So it was a very intense time, not only in the type of work we had to do, but the quantity of work that we had to do in a very short, short period of time. We did it, we filed our interim report as scheduled, in November of 2017. I hope I have the years correctly. And then our final report, on time, in June of 2019. It is entitled Reclaiming Power in Place, because that's what has to happen. Indigenous women, girls, and Two-Spirit people have to reclaim their positions in their own families, their own communities, and that's a position of power. That's the only way we're going to end the genocide. So, that's sort of where we are, in a nutshell.
Myrna McCallum:
Here, this mandate that you've been given, this impossible thing, I can't even begin to imagine what that must have felt like to take on this mountain of what looked like impossible work, with very little resources in terms of, "Where do we begin? How do we begin?"
One of the things that really drew my attention at the beginning was the way in which you and the other commissioners made space for the pain of the people who were coming forward to share their experiences, their losses, their fears. And I found it to be quite powerful. Can you tell me a little bit about where that decision came from, to essentially meet people where they were, and to reflect their culture and their customs and their practices? Which I would say are deeply rooted in their spiritual beliefs in that space. How did you all know how to do that?
Marion Buller:
Well, from my perspective, I knew from being a judge. And especially in First Nations courts, in BC, and our indigenous family court. That you have to recognize trauma and give it space, and not just the trauma, I don't mean to depersonalize it. But to give people space to experience their trauma.
So I went into the National Inquiry knowing that we had to have that type of setting, in a very legal, colonial, legalistic framework. So how do we do that? So I said to the commissioners, "My vision for this part of the National Inquiry, the public hearings... And private hearings, for that matter, because some people wanted to talk to us in private, was to make it so that we were as much as possible sitting at a kitchen table, having a cup of tea and having a conversation. So that meant no cross examination, period. If people wanted to swear an oath on a Bible, promise to tell the truth or nothing. Or hold an eagle feather, whatever worked for them, whatever they wanted to do, that was fine with us because we were starting from a position of, they were telling the truth. Hence, their testimony in the legal sense, was called throughout our work the truths, because that's what it is. It's their truth. So that's sort of giving the space, and I knew going in from my own experience, this is what we had to do.
I also knew from my own experience and the other commissioners as well, that we had to do the work in ceremony, not just the hearings, but also our other work, and I'll later on maybe come to that. But in order for people to feel safe and to feel empowered to speak, they have to have that cultural connection of whatever their ceremony is. Wherever we went in a hearing, we always worked in local ceremony, whatever that was. And I learned a lot. It's a fabulous learning experience, about the different cultures and different ceremonies, and that's a whole other conversation. But we did that out of respect for the people, in whose territory we were working, and also we did it to empower people as well to come forward.
And I just should say that, we only went to places where we were invited. We didn't, after being a circuit court judge for I don't know how many years, I said, "We're not going to inflict the National Inquiry on any community that doesn't want us." So, just as an aside, it was by invitation-only. And then in the actual hearings, whether it was a public hearing or whether people wanted to talk to commissioners in private, we respected whatever their ceremony was to make them comfortable. And we of course, gifted, because we were so grateful with the truths that we were given by family members and survivors, that we gave eagle feathers and other small gifts back to people. That whole reciprocity, that's one of the constants in indigenous cultures all across Canada, at least from my experience.
And we also gave people as much choice as we could for sharing their truths. Whether they wanted to come as a family, or as an individual. Whether they wanted to tell their truths in public, or in a private room with only commissioner and bare bones staff available. Or we had statement gatherers. These were people who did the most amazing work of the National Inquiry, and unfortunately, it wasn't in the public view. They would meet with people at community centers, at health units, they would meet with people at gas stations, a variety of locations, to collect the truths and record them. And so we gave people as much choice as possible. We wanted to do our work as trauma-informed as we could, from the very beginning, knowing that we had to center our work in ceremony. And that's what we did.
Myrna McCallum:
Yeah, well, I would say trauma-informed and also culturally responsive, right? Because what I'm listening to, like the piece around reciprocity and recognizing that creating safety and a sense of empowerment for people means going to connection and culture, and having it be rooted there. And the importance also, of not imposing the process on people, and going only to places where you were invited.
Which I think is so important because, on this podcast previously I've talked about Justice Langston, who's a retired Alberta Queens bench judge. And in his sentencing of Barbara Holmes, one of the things that he recognized immediately, which I've never heard in all my years as a defense or prosecutor, I've never walked into a courtroom and heard a judge acknowledge what he acknowledged that day. Which was, first off, "I'm dealing with an Aboriginal person, I'm dealing with someone who is in a system that is imposed upon her, and a system that has done nothing but tried to destroy her culture, her spirituality, and her way of being." I was like, "What is this?" So when I hear what you're saying about your approach, it's so aligns with the words that I heard from Justice Langston.
I want to talk a little bit about how you also made space for the things that I'm sure came up in you, and maybe even in the people who were working, to collect these truths. I also want to talk a little bit about the 231 legal imperatives, also known as the Calls for Justice and what has happened with that. But maybe I'll just invite you to begin where you want. Which topic do you want to talk about? Because I want to address both.
Marion Buller:
Yeah. Well, let's start with trauma and vicarious trauma, I think that's important to recognize. And it was everywhere in our work. And that's the first step, is to know that and acknowledge it. We made whatever we could available in the way of supports, on-site. Before care on site, and aftercare, for family members and survivors. I didn't, our wonderful staff were able to convince the federal government that for healthcare, for example, they should fund and would fund traditional healing rather than just Western medicine, only. That's a bit of a spinoff, that I think is fabulous, from the work that our staff did.
But vicarious trauma is really important to understand it, know it when you feel it, and then know what to do about it. And I appreciate it was very hard for the commissioners, as well as the statement gatherers, as well as every staff member, to hear and experience what we went through. And for our own group, our own staff, again, we made as much in the way of counseling and other help systems available to people. We couldn't force people to go to counseling, or anything like that, for that matter. But at least it was available to them if they wanted to take it. But it really involved so many people beyond our own staff, because for example, all of our hearings were in French and English. So there was simultaneous translation. The people doing the simultaneous translation were hearing and speaking exactly what was going on. And it was a matter of checking in with them regularly, to make sure they had whatever supports they needed on site, and then by their own employer, because they were contractors. Because it was everywhere, it permeated everywhere.
But the flip side to all of that was, there was tremendous celebration at the same time, a tremendous freeing that happened with people. And you could see that they walked into the hearing rooms, or locations, with this tremendous burden on them. And you could see it, in how they sat or how they walked. And by the end of it, you could see that so much had lifted off their shoulders. And you'd hear tremendous stories about resilience, and survival. And you think, "How on earth did this person do this? What tremendous strength did this person have?" Well, we know it's culture, and connection to culture and spirituality.
Vicarious trauma is a huge area. I think a lot of people in the legal system could do with some training regarding how it affects them, and others, their families for that matter as well. I just should add, I went into it with a little bit of preparation because, going way back at some point, I forget when it was now. At one of our judges conferences, there was a lunchtime talk about vicarious trauma. And I sat in on it, because I didn't really know what it was about. And I learned a lot in that lunchtime talk, about how to deal with vicarious trauma, in a good way. And I like to think that it's helped me even to today, in understanding, well first of all seeing vicarious trauma, feeling it. And then knowing what to do with it, in a healthy way.
Myrna McCallum:
This profession needs more education, not just in trauma and trauma-informed approaches, but also and maybe more importantly, in vicarious trauma. Recognizing it when it shows up, knowing what it feels like, and then how to address it. Because as you know, the legal profession has such poor mental health outcomes. I think it's conversation that really needs to be had in a meaningful way.
And I love hearing that you knew going in that a lot of people needed a moment to at least have an opportunity to check in about how they were receiving, and then releasing the information that was being presented. What was one of the ways, or some of the ways, in which you and others working in the Inquiry practice, the releasing bit, so the traumas of others were not going home with you?
Marion Buller:
In ceremony is really how we... Most of us, not all, but a lot of us dealt with getting rid of that. Just throwing all that trauma away. At the end of every day, we had a drumming circle and singing, or up in the North it was a little bit different, but at the end of every day we had a closing. And that was to get rid of all the pain, as much as we could, the pain and the hurt and all the vicarious trauma. And so that was a purpose, at the end of the day. "Let's finish the day, get rid of it, and when we walk out of the room, we're leaving all of that negativity, that anger, that pain, grief, behind." And I have to say, we had help from elders all across Canada in the ceremony, in helping, and making sure that we left things where they belong.
And at the end of our work, we had a ceremony in White Horse, just again, we were brushed, the branches were burned, the smoke was horribly black. It was an amazing process for us to go through, as well, up there. So a lot of ceremony to get rid of that, but in a timely way. Don't let it accumulate. Get rid of it, as soon as you can. So ceremony was big.
Another big way was the commissioners and I, and senior staff, had what we call grandmothers. Not all of them were literally grandmothers, but they were our advisors, to kind of keep an eye on us and make sure that we were okay, and did we need a break? It sounds kind of basic but, are we eating properly? Are we getting a good night's sleep? All those basics, that are really important for good health. And are we worried about something? Constantly checking in with us. And I think for the commissioners and myself, the grandmothers made it doable. Our own individual grandmothers made it doable, for us.
Myrna McCallum:
That's amazing. I just think when I hear people come to me saying, "How do we decolonize this process that is so colonial? It's structured in this way." As I listen to you, and as I think about the things that I train people in, it really does come back to ceremony. And bringing ceremony into that space. I love that you talked about ritual and practice, and often when I train people, I say, "Do something every day that creates a disconnect between what you were doing, and now, how it is that you're going to move forward."
It doesn't have to be, like for those who are non-indigenous and maybe don't have a point of reference about what we're talking about, when we talk about brushing or smudging or other things. There's things that you could do. It could be a moment of mindfulness, it could be a mindfulness practice, it could be a run. It could be something that you do to mindfully release whatever your day has thrown upon you, so it doesn't go home with you. It really is just a ritual, a practice that you do on the daily. Thank you for sharing that.
I hear this theme emerging around making space for ceremony, for culture, for recognizing the value and the importance of reflecting, connections that people have to their spirituality or to their culture. I've heard you talk about elders, and I was thinking last week, I think it was last week, I was presenting to a bunch of prosecutors in Alberta. And one of the topics was, "How do we support indigenous victims of crime?" And one of the things I said is, "Instead of relying solely on a victim support worker to come in the day before trial, look at and push the government to fund community-based services that utilize elders and cultural workers to do this work, to build relationship through the whole process. And even post trial, because bringing someone in who doesn't understand who you are, where you come from, what your lived experience is, the day before a trial, is not going to actually provide support."
So I love that you were talking about the value and the wisdom and the benefit and the healing effect that elders bring into these spaces. It's such an easy thing to do, to invite them in.
Marion Buller:
Well that's one of the reasons why, just going back in time, I instigated if that's the right word, having elders in First Nations Court because I looked around the courtroom and thought, "There's something missing here, and it's elders. And what they can offer all the clients and the staff, and me, for that matter." So, the way I look at it, the more elders the better.
Myrna McCallum:
Yeah, exactly. So I've referenced Justice Langston, one of the things in his very short reasons for sentencing, he made a reference to an elder. And he referenced also a smudge, that had happened before. And I thought, "Okay, this is a man who practices cultural humility, and who understands the importance of virtuality in relation to indigenous people." And when Amber Prince and I were at the BC Human Rights Tribunal with Deborah Campbell, we also brought in two female elders, one who was Cree and one who was Coast Salish. And it was such a powerful experience, having these women open with a prayer and root us and ground us, in a good way. There's something about elders that make every space healing and sacred. So for those of our listeners who are like, "How can I work better with indigenous people?" Go and bring in elders, and look at ways in which you can introduce ceremony.
Marion Buller:
Yes. And Myrna, it isn't just ceremony and space, it's time. And I've learned time is probably as important, maybe more important because if somebody needs three hours to tell their story, give them three and a half.
Myrna McCallum:
That is such a good point. I'm so glad you brought it up, because that is the one thing that keeps coming up. And I know that to be trauma-informed, you have to give people time. The problem in our profession is, everyone is a slave to the clock. They're like, "We only have this much time. We have a full docket. We got to do this, got to do that."
So this is me kind of going off, a little bit, but I have to ask the question. You've been a judge in provincial court, you understand that. What would you say? Do you have an answer for those who are saying, "We've got a full docket, we've only got this much time." Or you have lawyers saying, "I've got so many other client files I've got to get through," or, "We only have four days for this trial." For people who are a slave to the clock, or driven by time constraints, how do you make more time?
Marion Buller:
That's the two billion dollar question, isn't it? How do you make more time? I think it has to start at the beginning, when you're saying, "Okay, how much time do I need for this trial or this hearing?" Add 50%. And in fact, back in the day when I was an admin judge, that's what I used to do when we were doing trial scheduling. Was, add 50%, maybe not for a ceremony, but for the fact that the odds are there's going to be an emergency bail hearing that has to be done, or an emergency child protection hearing that's going to come into that same courtroom. So I think you have to say to yourself, "Self, I'm going to start calculating or measuring time differently than I have. I'm going to allow a buffer or extra time, because invariably it's going to be needed."
And it's a really hard discipline to do that, but you have to do it, I think. I've been in, it feels like, the world's busiest remand court. And still you have to make time. You have to stop, and you have to breathe. And if it means courts running late, if it means people need time to phone somebody to pick up kids at daycare, give them that time. We're all human. We all have other commitments. So let's just be realistic, from the get-go.
Myrna McCallum:
I love that. We need to change our relationship to time. That's a really good one. And I think for the chief judges of the world who are listening, you need more judges. You need more people doing this work. And I really think that also, if we created more resources for either victim support services or elder support services, maybe then you need less time in the courtroom because people will have been adequately prepared for what they have to go through. And it won't be so hard.
Marion Buller:
Myrna, you've raised an excellent point, about preparation. If you're properly prepared for court, you can get in, get the job done, and get out again. But there are a lot of obstacles to preparation, and we all know them, there's a shopping list of obstacles. But again, it's a matter of changing how you do business and saying, "I need the prep time," or, "I'm not going to wing it." And here's a big one. "My client is so important that I have to do the prep time. My client's case is so important, that I'm going to do that prep work for court. I'm not going to try winging it in court. I'm not going to try to meet the client 20 minutes before the case is called, in the hall room in the courthouse. This work is so valuable that I'm going to do the prep time."
Myrna McCallum:
Yeah. And I think further to your point, I am valuable in order for me to effectively advocate and advocate in a good way, I need to have time to process what I just saw, what I just heard, what I was just exposed to. Release that, so I can move into the next thing. As opposed to closing a file, picking up another one, calling another client, saying, "Okay, it's go time."
Marion Buller:
Yeah. Exactly.
Myrna McCallum:
Which we've all been guilty of, right?
Marion Buller:
Oh yeah.
Myrna McCallum:
Yeah.
Marion Buller:
Oh, no doubt about that. It's just, how do you want to do business, basically. Is what it comes down to. I know there are a lot of administrative issues involved, a lot of finance issues involved. I'm not naive in that respect, but it's a matter of personal choice, as well.
Myrna McCallum:
And the commitment to, "Do we want to do further harm to people, or is there a better way?"
I think that's a really good place to pivot to the next piece that I want to discuss with you. So when I was presenting last week to this group of prosecutors, their course was on prosecuting sexual offenses. And what their agenda opened up with was a quote from the Supreme Court of Canada involving Bradley Barton. And you know who Bradley Barton is, from the murder of Cindy Gladue, who was a Métis woman. The court had said, and I'm just going to quote, I pulled it up.
It says, "We live in a time where most stereotypes and sexual violence against women, particularly indigenous women and sex workers, are tragically common. Our society has yet to come to grips with just how deep-rooted these issues truly are, and just how devastating their consequences can be. Without a doubt eliminating myths, stereotypes, and sexual violence against women is one of the most pressing challenges we face as a society. While serious efforts are being made by a range of actors to address and remedy these failings, both within the criminal justice system and throughout Canadian society more broadly, this case attests to the fact that more needs to be done. Put simply, we can and must do better."
So thinking now about this, I would say, call to action from the Supreme Court of Canada and what I now consider to be really the duty to do better. The Inquiry process resulted in a report that included 231 legal imperatives, also known as Calls for Justice. I think somewhere within there, is the ways in which we can do better. And is there anything that you want to add or speak to about how we can do better? Particularly when we are serving indigenous women and girls, or dealing with matters involving missing and murdered indigenous women?
Marion Buller:
Well, how much time do you have?
Myrna McCallum:
I know, right? Yeah.
Marion Buller:
Oh, these are tough questions, your Honor. Oh, where to start. To do better? Well, I really think to do better starts with education, and understanding where the law came from. Well, the law in the criminal code, and a lot of the law of evidence, came from England when the settlers came over. And what did they bring with them? Well, they brought patriarchy with them. And if you look at the criminal code and other, like civil law. A lot of civil law, a lot of tort law for that matter, laws of evidence. It's there to protect the white male property owner. Because when the English settlers came over in the French, to a certain extent, when they brought civil law with them. The laws were in place to keep the white patriarchy strong, and to protect property owners who were all white, because back then women were property and so were children. So let's look at how it all started in Canada, and that's how it all started, with settler law. I'm not talking about indigenous laws here, obviously.
So that's the basis of the criminal code, and the law regarding sex assaults. Now think about it, for a moment. Publication bans regarding sex assaults, we dress that up to say, "We're protecting the identity of the victim." But really, what are we doing? We're protecting the identity of, more often than not, not always, the male perpetrator. And, witness what has just recently happened in Ontario, with the woman who wanted her name to be public. And how she was fined, and criminal record, for breaching the publication basically.n because it would tend to identify the offender. So let's start from a different point of analysis, of who's really being protected here? And whose interests are paramount in a sex assault trial?
Well, we dress that up as saying, "The rights of the offender, natural justice," all that, "the right to know the case against you," et cetera, et cetera. I don't need to go into all that, but really what we're we're doing is giving a fancy cloak to protecting the offender. And when we move away from the white male offender and a victim from a marginalized community, and change that power imbalance to maybe, a person of color, offender, and a white complainant, victim. Look at how the dynamics change. In terms of the law, in terms of how people are treated, who's believed, who isn't believed. Not so much now, but in the past, the sex assault law was, "It was her fault. She made me do it. I'm not responsible for my own behavior in the circumstances. She was asking for it, what was I supposed to do?"
And that's still an undercurrent in every sex assault trial, in keeping that the evidence of the sexual history of the complainant, off the record. And there's still that push to get that constant conflict. So let's look really being protected in this process, and it's not the complainant, unless the dynamics shift a little bit in terms of who's the complainant and who's the offender, or the accused. And the same thing applies to sentencing. When you look at sentences for different combinations of that power imbalance, you see differences in sentencing as well. Findings of credibility. The list goes on. So let's be honest with ourselves and say, "Okay, this is the purpose of a sex assault trial, and all of the law that goes along with that trial."
So how are we going to make it better for the woman who comes from a marginalized part of Canadian society? She's lost, even before she goes into the courtroom. But I think it has to start even before the trial process, or even the charge process, right from the very beginning of, what happens when she calls the police? If she calls the police. And working from there. We looked at that when we drafted our Calls for Justice, our recommendations, that experience of the complainant or the victim has to be carefully empowered all the way along, with culturally appropriate, long-term, properly funded victim services.
Because in a lot of parts of Canada there, there's no victim services or when we did our work, there weren't any. There were other places where there were some victim services. There were other places that... I would give them a pretty good grade, actually, for culturally appropriate long-term victim services. So let's just be honest with ourselves, and start from the beginning with the understanding of this imbalance, and the real purpose of the law. And empower that victim all the way through the as we did in many overlapping Calls for Justice, the proper supports. And by proper, I mean long term, properly, adequately funded and resourced, and culturally appropriate beginning to end.
Myrna McCallum:
I think that's a great recipe in terms of where to start. So for folks who are like, "Well, where do we begin?" Education, law reform, and funding victim and culturally appropriate services for victims of sexual violence. Victims of violence, period.
What has happened since the report was completed with the 231 legal imperatives that provided a roadmap to addressing this in a meaningful way? Because I could tell you, as you know, and for listeners who are less familiar with the issue of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls. Every week it seems like, when I'm on social media or the news, there's another indigenous girl who's gone missing or who's been found murdered. This has not ended, things did not... This atrocity, this genocide did not end, when this report was issued. And I don't hear a lot of government officials saying much about the report, or the response to the report. So what's happening? What needs to happen?
Marion Buller:
Well, what needs to happen? A lot more transparency, and I'll come back to that in a moment.
Our 231 Calls for Justice aren't all aimed at governments. There are Calls for Justice for all Canadians, to act upon. The media, people on the child welfare system, educators, et cetera, et cetera. So it's not all government, by any stretch. And by all government. That includes indigenous governments and organizations. So they're not off the hook either, because... Well, that's a whole other conversation I won't go into today, but it's aimed at all governments. Now, what's been going on? That's a really good question. It's hard to know. It's hard to find out, what if anything's going on, because there's no one sort of central website to go to find out what's happening. And we should have made a Call for Justice regarding that, but that's a whole other story.
So what's been going on? It's kind of piecemeal, actually. Yukon Territory, light years ahead of anywhere else in Canada. Immediately after our report was filed, they got to work, and I should say the National Inquiry was the first truly National Inquiry. We had terms of references, or whatever the plural is, and OICs in every province, territory, and federally. So provinces and territories are equally as bound by our report as the federal government. Just want to clarify that. And I'm sure there's some people thinking, "Oh my goodness, what a legal mess." Well, it was, because it was 14 different Inquiries happening at the same time, legally.
So, Yukon hit the ground running immediate. In June 2019, the Yukon government struck a tripartite committee, made up of representatives of Yukon government, First Nations government, and Yukon women's organizations. In a very short period of time. They read all the reports, started to do priorities, all the reports, meaning TRC reports, some other reports. Started to kind of do a list of priorities of what they wanted to accomplish. Then they went to every community in Yukon territory, which is no easy feat I'll tell you, having done circuit courts. It's an interesting process, interesting travel, and said in each community, "Now, what are the priorities here? What do you need to make your women and girls and Two-Spirit people safe?"
Collected all this work, and then came back and drafted a strategy for implementation. This was all ready to roll by December of 2019, January 2019. COVID struck, of course, that kind of things down. But they have a strategy that they're already working on, and it's brilliantly done. I don't have the website handy, but if you Google MMIWG Yukon, you can get the link to their report, that's brilliant. And it's a real to-do plan to make it safer for indigenous women, girls, and two-spirit people in Yukon territory.
There have been some grassroots initiatives across Canada, and they are grassroots initiatives. For example, Saskatchewan, a place near and dear to both of us. Women there said, "We're not waiting," and recently had a strategy conference about where to start, what to do first, what to do second, what our priorities are. That sort of thing. Similar things have happened in Quebec and Ontario. So the real action is starting at the grassroots level.
Now, the difficulty is with governments, it's hard to know what's going on. Because there's no, as I said earlier, there's no one place to go to find out the checklist of what we've done. In British Columbia here, you have to go to at least three or four different websites for different ministries to find out what's been going on. There's no one place. And it's the same all across Canada, with the federal government. They're really happy to tell you what they've been doing, up to a certain point, new legislation regarding child welfare on reserves, for example. Funding transition houses, a variety of other things. But they're not telling you specifically, "What we have done to address Call for Justice 1.5," for example. There's none of that going on. I've heard rumors, I'm not involved in any way directly, that there's a National Action Plan being developed through the federal government, or under the federal government. I don't know enough to say. That was promised. A National Action Plan was promised one year after our report was filed, which was a year ago, almost a year ago now. It didn't happen because of COVID.
Well, I don't buy it. Look at what Yukon did. I have a hunch the report just sat on somebody's desk for a while, and then didn't move. But anyway, I don't know what's happening with the National Action Plan. If there's anything happening, there's not a lot of transparency. I don't even know where to go start looking for it. So that's at the federal level, internationally, there's been a lot of interest in our report from various human rights organizations, United Nations branches of their organization, and people are waiting and watching internationally, to see what on earth Canada's going to do. So a lot of people are watching, but first of all, we don't know where to look. And if we knew where to look, it isn't making a lot of sense.
Myrna McCallum:
And in the meantime, indigenous women and girls continue to go missing and are found murdered, which is really heartbreaking. And it's a little bit inspirational, but also disappointing, to know that the report has made this full circle in terms of going back to grassroots communities who are taking action. It started with grassroots communities ringing the alarm, and now it's come back to them. And similar to reconciliation, it's now landed on the backs of indigenous people to now take action. But it sounds like there is hope. There's definitely hope in the Yukon.
I am going to check out their work. I'm going to Google MMIWG and Yukon, I hope the listeners do too, to see how it is that folks are finding a better way, to do better, to meet the call to action I would say, that the Supreme Court of Canada gave us. This has been really illuminating this conversation, I have to say. But definitely, illuminating for our listeners who are thinking, "How do I make space for trauma? How do I reflect spirituality and culture in our colonial processes? Where do I begin to examine where we are flawed, and where we need change?" I love that you mentioned, how do you want to do business? What is your relationship to time? There are really these courageous questions that we all need to reflect on, and you gave us some insight into, "This is how we do it. If we're committed to doing better, and doing no further harm, and making a space for folks, particularly indigenous women and girls in a space where they feel safe and empowered? Here's where you can begin."
I also love that you mentioned that the Calls for Justice isn't just calls for the government to respond to. It's for all Canadians, in all these different sectors. So for those who are listening who are like, "Oh, how do we start to answer the Calls for Justice?" There's a place in there that speaks directly to you, so go and read the report. I'm really glad, Marion, that you are in the world doing this work and answering these calls to do better, and shining a light on the ways in which we can do better to make a safe and empowering space for indigenous women and girls. So thank you for having this conversation with me today.
Marion Buller:
My pleasure. Thank you for the opportunity.
Myrna McCallum:
Well, that's our show for today, folks. I hope you enjoyed the conversation. In spite of how heavy things are right now, and how bleak certain outcomes look, I choose to continue to believe in possibility for you, for me, for all of us. And I think becoming trauma-informed is one pathway to possibility, and there are many, many others. So I hope that you continue to find your own pathway to positive possibilities, for yourself and others. If you have any questions or comments about today's show, you can find me on social media, of course. At LinkedIn, you just search my name. You can also find me on Instagram, thetraumainformedlawyer. And of course, Twitter, @theTILPodcast.
Today's episode was recorded on the traditional, unceded and ancestral territories of the Squamish, Tsleil-Waututh and Musqueam people. Thanks for listening, everyone. Take care of yourselves.