In this powerful inter-generational conversation, I am joined by Leslie Priscilla of Latinx Parenting, along with Ally Hrbacek, Mariana Trujillo-Lezama, and Claudia Lezama. Together, we explore parenting, power, and the ways harm toward children has been normalized through culture, control, punishment, and adult supremacy. We reflect on the patterns we inherit, the courage it takes to break cycles, and what it means to raise children with autonomy, dignity, and respect. We also speak to a deeper truth: children are not just ours to raise—they are our teachers, mirrors, and healers. This episode is about re-parenting ourselves, transforming our relationships with children, and understanding why the liberation of children is essential to any vision of healing or justice. Content Warning: This episode also discusses topics including unhealthy parenting practices, hitting children, and the abuse or mistreatment of children.
In this deeply honest, vulnerable, courageous and inter-generational conversation, I am joined by Leslie Priscilla of Latinx Parenting, my daughter Ally Hrbacek, Mariana Trujillo-Lezama, and her mother Claudia Lezama. Together, we explore a powerful and necessary truth: there is no healing or justice without the liberation of children.
We name something many struggle to say out loud—children are often mistreated in ways that have been normalized. Through control, punishment, dismissal, and the assumption of adult authority, harm is perpetuated in everyday parenting practices. Leslie calls this what it is: adult supremacy, and challenges us to radically rethink how we relate to children.
This conversation moves beyond blame and into awareness.
Across generations, we reflect on the parenting we received, the patterns we’ve inherited, and the courage it takes to interrupt cycles of harm. We speak to the tension of loving our children deeply while also confronting the ways we may unknowingly replicate what hurt us.
We also hold a profound truth: children are not just beings we raise—they are teachers, mirrors, and healers.
They reveal where we are still wounded. They invite us to reconnect with our own inner children. And they call us into the work of healing—not just individually, but across generations. In this episode, we explore: the normalization of harm in parenting; power, control, and adult supremacy; what it means to truly love and respect children; children as teachers and guides in our healing; the necessity of re-parenting ourselves; and why the liberation of children is essential to any vision of justice or healing.
This is not a conversation about perfect parenting. It is a conversation about truth, accountability, and transformation. Because how we treat children shapes not only families— but the world we are creating.
---
Leslie Priscilla is a parent coach, educator, and the founder of Latinx Parenting, a bilingual movement rooted in children’s rights, social and racial justice, nonviolence, and intergenerational healing. Her work focuses on:
She has worked with thousands of parents, educators, and professionals through workshops, trainings, and community-based programming.
Leslie’s highly anticipated book, Chancla: Healing Our Families, Ourselves, and Our Culture through Nonviolent Parenting, is available for pre-order and will be released on August 18, 2026. In Chancla, Leslie:
Blending storytelling, history, and practical tools, this book is a guide for anyone seeking to break cycles and create homes grounded in love, safety, and respect.
Connect with Leslie
Website: Latinx Parenting
Instagram: @LatinxParenting
Instagram (Leslie): @comadre.wellness
Leslie will also be presenting at the Justice as Trauma Summit in Vancouver from April 7-9. Learn more here: www.myrnamccallum.co/jat2026
🎵 AUDIO/MUSIC CUE🎵
>>Myrna McCallum: Hi, folks. Can you believe that we are at season four of the Trauma Informed Lawyer podcast? I certainly cannot believe it and I appreciate all of you for sticking with me through all of it and the delays and dropping episodes. I promise this season I'm going to be giving you a lot of content and on a more regular, predictable basis. I want to say that since I started this podcast, I don't know how long ago now, years ago, my evolution and my education has certainly, like, increased least. And I believe that becoming trauma informed in any respect is just the baseline, the bare minimum that we can do. The work for us is to become trauma responsive, culturally responsive, to become just and equitable, and to center humanity and integrity in all of the work that we do. In the spirit of that, the episodes, the conversations that are coming forward are intended to reflect that. And as I have come to learn, and probably you, the listener on understand, this conversation isn't just for lawyers and judges and law enforcement, like I, my initial intended audience. It has, like, spanned the globe, from lawyers to leaders to advocates, activists, practitioners, physicians, politicians. So many people listen to this content. Why? Because we are all dealing with human beings and all human beings are experiencing some degree of suffering, including ourselves. And so the work for us is to recognize that in each other, adapt and adjust accordingly so we do no further harm.
🎵 AUDIO/MUSIC CUE🎵
>> Myrna McCallum: Today I have a treat for all of our listeners. We are talking with Leslie. Priscilla, going to be presenting at my conference, justice is Trauma, which is coming up April 7th, 8th and 9th here in Vancouver. My daughter Ally is with us. She's going to introduce herself. Mariana, who people have heard of because she's a member of my team, is here with her mom, Claudia. And they're going to introduce themselves. but let's start off with, introducing my special guest for this conversation, Leslie. Welcome.
>> Leslie Priscilla: Thank you, Myrna. And I just want to say that I have a tía who I love very much, who is named Myrna. she introduces herself as Myrna, but I call her my Tía Mirna. anyway, so just very loving energy already here with the mothers, and I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to present at the conference. I am first and foremost the daughter of, two Mexican immigrants, that came to this country in the 70s and in the 80s. I am someone who grew up bicultural, what I call bicultural, where I was very much steeped in Mexican culture, but I was also steeped in the assimilation of American culture. And so that journey kind of informed why I do what I do. There was A lot of frustration that I experienced, just with the fact that my mom didn't have a lot of the resources and she was a single mama. I. I'll get into, you know, more story later. But, when I came into mothering, I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. I know what I don't want to do. I know the kind of relationship I don't want to have with this child. I was young. I was about 23 when I had my daughter. And, and it's been a journey of learning ever since and really seeing my children. I have three now and a stepson, so four total. But, it's been a journey of learning from them. Right. And being taught by them, and seeing myself as a student of, my own inner child and a student of their essence and what their needs are. So I'm excited to talk about, all of these things. Thank you.
>> Myrna McCallum: Wonderful.
>> Leslie Priscilla: Yeah.
>> Myrna McCallum: Thank you. Okay. Mariana, would you like to introduce yourself?
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: Mariana, as, some people may know, I work with Myrna. we've been working for over a year now. I'm a Colombian immigrant. And, I'm, a queer person too. And I'm really excited but also nervous to be having these conversations with all of you. Leslie, I admire you a lot. you're an icon for the Latin community. So I'm really excited to. To be in this meeting with all of you, and I'm really excited to see you also where we're gonna take the conversation.
>> Myrna McCallum: Thank you, Ally
>> Ally Hrbachek: Hi, my name is Ally I am Myrna's daughter. I am a Cree woman from Treaty 6 territory in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. Well, I guess that had been my home, actually, up until recently. I've now relocated, so I'm actually in North Vancouver, British Columb. currently residing on the Sway Lath Nation. And. But I'm originally. My dad's family line comes from Trudy4Papeexis Cree Nation. I am, a mom to three little babies. I am a wife, daughter of an Indian residential school survivor. I'm the granddaughter of an Indian hospital survivor. I am, now working alongside my mom and helping carry out her mission and her calling in her life. And I'm just so grateful to be a part of the journey. I'm an artist as well.
>> Ally Hrbachek: And
>> Ally Hrbachek: I am also nervous and excited to be here having such an important conversation with you. I met you, Leslie, about a year ago now. And I knew from the moment I met you that that couldn't be the End of our time together, I knew somehow, some way, I needed to find a way to work with you.
>> Ally Hrbachek: I thought everything you did and everything you taught and everything you really put out there in the world for me and so many other people to. To think about and to learn on and reflect on, it, resonated with me so deeply and changed the way I parented from that day on out. And I know that's just the start of my journey. And, yeah, I'm really excited to have this talk today with everybody.
>> Myrna McCallum: Wonderful. Okay, Claudia.
>> Claudia Lezama: My name is Claudia. I am Mariana's mother. And, I am Colombian. But, something that Colombians have is that we women don't change our last name. So that. Why. That's why Mariana is Mariana Trujillo, and I am Claudia. I moved to Canada 12 years ago with Mariana as my family, with my son and my husband. I am, a privileged woman with three kids, two grandkids, and lots of doggies and cats in my family. I am, And this is something that I, have to say. I am Christian. Not, like, I believe in Christ. That's something that, it's important to say here because we are talking about the way we raise our kids, how
>> Claudia Lezama: my, faith had to be lost with this. And that's important to. To have in mind.
>> Myrna McCallum: Okay thank you for that intro, everybody. All right, let's kick this off a little bit with Leslie. I wanted to ask you, how did you become Latinx parenting? Like, how. How was it that children and, our. Our parenting patterns and all of the things became the focus of your life'? This journey that you're on?
>> Leslie Priscilla: Thank you for asking that. I have the privilege of having been guided by many teachers, over the last probably 15 years or so, where I really started to recognize that, you know, unfortunately, many of the. The would be elders in our. In our family are still very much in survival. Right? And, and so this is language that I, at that time, I was not using. I wasn using language around wounds and trauma and all of these things. So. But as I was saying in the. In the short introduction, I was frustrated, that this was not the way that I was parented, the ways that these parenting books were recommending that I parent. Right. So I was learning about attachment parenting and positive discipline and all of these modalities that sounded really beautiful in theory, but they existed on an extreme that was very far from what I had experienced, what my parents had experienced, what my aunts and uncles My thes and theos here in Southern California had experienced, and so I think it began as an exploration of that distance, right, and the want to create a bridge between those, those experiences. Because in 2013, after I became certified as a parenting coach and an educator by Maestra Ruth, Beagle Hole. And, and I have to name her right away because she's been probably the greatest influence, in terms of child liberation for me. And, and she was really the first to ever say to us that parenting is not actually about parenting, it's about social justice for children. and so that's been the core framework that I've kind of built Latinx parenting on. and over the years I've integrated, you know, my, my indigenous practices that I've reconnected with through a calpuli that's here in Southern California is just like the, the cohort, right, of learners that we've been learning from, from these elders. So I think it really has just been my elders encouragement and, and their, their witnessing of how much work we have left to do and sharing that with me so that I understand my role, in the liberation of indigenous peoples, and many of us who are Mexican, right, Many of us who are Latin American, Latinos, Latin people, we have indigenous lineage. We have indigenous roots to this land. And I felt part of the frustration was like, I didn't know that, right? I didn't. I wasn't. I was actually told that indigenous people were like mythological creatures, right? It was like the way that it was presented in school, it was like, oh yes, and, and the Pilgrims and the Indians. And so, you know, as you start learning more, you start recognizing how you've been lied to, and how our parents, you know, when, when I'm learning about attachment parenting and I'm like, okay, wearing your baby, sleeping with your baby, nursing your baby. Until my babies were four, that's all called attachment parenting. But now I'm learning about indigenous cultures and I'm like, wait a minute, this is actually indigenous parenting. This is something that was taken from us. This was something that was usurped, right, by these other forms of parenting. So Latinx parenting is really something that I started to have that conversation with the Latino community. And so much of the work that I do is actually with Spanish speaking families. And I'm able to, to bring in these ideas of you know, how long we've been on this land and, and what we've always deserved and what's been taken from us and what our children deserve and what our descendants deserve. So, and it's all through the lens of, you know, that liberation for the child, that's where it begins. And not just our external children, but our inner children. So that's kind of the, the summary of the framework. but yeah, I think, you know, I'm hoping that, that folks continue to resonate with, with those ideas and, and that that conversation can grow in so many ways.
>> Myrna McCallum: I just want to respond to that, in case other people do as well. I mean, go ahead and like chime in, but, you said a couple things that I don't think I've ever heard. One is like, looking at like, considering children in the context of like liberation for children. I don't think I've ever heard those two things put together. Social justice in the context of children. And, and as I saw my daughter, like the other day, we were having a conversation about kids and I said, you know, I feel like we live in a time where a lot of people hate children or resent children. Some parents even see their children as a source of a drain on money. Youth, beauty, resources, freedom, like fill in the blanks, right? And you see a lot of disconnection happening, I think, all over the place. I especially see it when I go into restaurants and I see whole families on their phones and no one looks at each other, speaks to each other, or I see people pushing strollers and kids have their phones, iPads. They're not even looking at the world around them. They're looking at this. I see a lot of disconnection. And and I was telling Ally like, I wonder why we don't talk about children enough and why we don't care about children enough and we don't speak about the necessary care of children enough. Is it that we low key resent children, disregard them, dismiss them, find them irrelevant or unimportant? Like, is that sort of something that's like operating behind the scenes? I'm not sure. I mean, I'm sure it's complicated, but you might have some ideas and if anyone else does, please, like weigh in.
>> Claudia Lezama: I want to add something that also, to what you are saying is that now when I see people with their kids, I always tell them something and they said, oh, it's so hard. They are so, noisy that they are always complaining about the kids. And that's something that for me is very, very weird. I have now a new neighbor and ah, always when I am taking the Dog out. I meet him taking the dog with the kids. And, he's always complaining about the kids. And I am like, they are kids. They have to be noisy, but they are joyful. They are so nice, but everybody's complaining about them. So that's something that I wanted to add.
>> Myrna McCallum: Yeah.
>> Leslie Priscilla: Thank you, Claudia. Thank you, Myrna. there's roots there. There's historical roots to children being dehumanized, which is what it is. Right. back to the times of Aristotle, when he was creating ideas around, you know, who had access to reason. Right.
>> Leslie Priscilla: And.
>> Leslie Priscilla: And logos. I talk a little bit about it in the book, but, those ideas had a lot of influence into the way that Europe, ended up treating children. And if you. If you go down the. The rabbit hole of child liberation, you start learning about this history of the maltreatment, mistreatment of children, which was very deeply rooted in Europe. And so, you know, I always ask parents, I say, what happened 500 years ago, on this land? And. And so we start talking about the. The influence of this paradigm, of conquest. Right. And of power. The reason I focus on the parenting dynamic is because it's one of the very first experiences of power that we have. one is our bodies, one is the land, obviously. But, you know, in the dynamic between the adult and the child, whether it's a parent or a teacher or. There's a lot of abuse of that power. there's a lot of, you know, I guess, lack of awareness, of what they themselves, as adults deserved as children as well. So I approach it from that lens of compassion, because if a parent is feeling annoyed with their child, I can almost guarantee that they felt like they were the annoying child. Right. And, And so often these things get passed down in that way, and. And there's no interruption, of those cycles continuing. If we don't examine the prejudice that we hold against children because of the prejudice that was held against us as children, which stems from generations and generations and generations ago. So what we know is that many indigenous peoples on this land actually had quite equitable relationships with children where children weren't involved. There were rites of passage, intergenerational, wisdom was shared, you know, with. With young people. They were brought in as contributors there. We saw a lot of collaboration. I'm not trying to romanticize, you know, indigenous peoples because obviously we're human beings, and so all of us can both have harm caused to us and also cause harm. So, But I think there was something that was Taken. And it was the ease and it was the peace and it was the connection and the balance, or the access to having some balance and some a, ah, village, right? There's this saying of, you know, it takes a village and it's like, well, yeah, but how many of us know our neighbors, how many of us actually show up for parents in, in the time that they need us to show up? And it's very little of us because we're, we're pretty burnt out. You know, I don't negate the fact that a parent is annoyed by their child. I am sure. I'm sure they're annoyed by their child because they're very likely exhausted, right? They're very likely overwhelmed. They're very likely stressed out. that resentment that I held towards my mom, that frustration when I was younger, it was without the full context of what she had experienced, right? It was without the full understanding. So the conversations that I, That I like to invite are around kind of expanding that lens, to understand that this is a historical, occurrence. Right? That this is something that is paradigmatic. I love that word, you know, thinking about paradigms because it is a paradigm m. Of violence. There is a paradigm of power over. There is a paradigm of comparison. And you know, this is better than this. And, and so that's a very linear, hierarchical, you know, experience to be in. for all of us. White. White supremacy is a part of that. Patriarchy is a part of that. adult supremacy is a part of that. And that was, you know, a term that was coined by a friend of mine, Colby Tutousis, and his wife, ah, Andrea Landry, who are actually as well. but they, you know, they, they gave me this term and I, and I love it because we, we are supremacists when it comes to children. As adults, we hold a lot of privilege. and we need to recognize also that children have been oppressed forever, right? It's been so long that, that we've seen those dynamics play out. and also Bell Hook says that, you know, children and childhood is the only oppressed class that all of us have belonged to at some point. and I really appreciate that because we don't think about it that way often, right? We don't think about ourselves as, as being a part of this group, that cannot, they can't organize, they can't go and protest. You know, the adults, they can't. Sometimes they do, right? Students get together and they. And ah, they speak up and they start speaking out. but for the most part, you know, a three year old or a four year old who's getting hit at home, what are they going to do? Right, what are they going to do? So, so I want us to kind of stay in the awareness that that child version of ourselves is still very much in us. that it's still worthy of protection, that it's still worthy of safety, that it's still worthy of, of connection and validation and discipline in a healthy way. Right. We've, we've kind of messed up what discipline means in our minds and now it's about punishment and and all of these things. So I know that I just said it quite a bit, but you know, I want to just really offer compassion to parents because this is hard as it is. And we're trying to survive capitalism, we're trying to survive white supremacy for, especially for Afro Latino or you know, black Canadians and black Americans. Like, there's, there's a lot of pressures that these parenting books don't actually consider as a part of what is influencing the capacity for us to show up for our children in the way that they deserve and the way that we always deserve to.
>> Myrna McCallum: Yeah, absolutely. I have a question, but I'm going to just pause, see if anyone wants to comment on what you just said.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: I wanted to say two things, Leslie. When you were thinking about bell hooks, it's like you listen to my thought and just said it out loud. Because I remember also at the end of All About Love, when she says, at the end of the day we all have a child that we can abuse. Everyone has a child around them or access basically to a child. And, and then I was thinking, I always say also for people to, when I'm trying to center children because I also see it specifically also on the left, and movements, that try. And I know that at their core they truly believe in liberation, in collective liberation, how they do not center children and how there's even sometimes like waves of what you were saying, hate for children and hate for people who choose to have children. and this idea that, you know, you're contributing to the downfall of humanity if you basically give birth. And I am, I'm a lesbian person, I'm in a long term relationship with a loving partner and you know, we would love to have children right now and it won't happen for us like that, you know. And so when I'm also in those spaces where people claim to, you know, love freedom for everyone and equality for everyone and Safety for everyone. And they don't feel like an inherent need to protect the most vulnerable, you know, the ultimate most vulnerable developing human beings. Because we also have our longest right from all animals, the longest, developing period where we need so much help to survive. so I cannot believe that we live in that dichotomy. And I see it especially, you know. Yeah. In leftist movements or liberatory movements where children are not centered.
Yeah, it's. It's. I don't know why. I don't know why.
>> Leslie Priscilla: Yeah, I think, you know, when I, When I hear that, when I sit with it and when I think about the extreme experiences of child abuse and what we're seeing now with what's happening in the U.S. around, you know, how. Just how much children have not been protected, it's just in our face so much. And, this is why, you know, for me, I feel like I, I need to keep my grief practices very sharpened, because it causes a lot of emotion and sensation. and that emotion and sensation needs an outlet. Right. It needs somewhere to go. Sometimes it comes out at my children, and sometimes I'm like, I'm overwhelmed by the world and. And then I find myself being short or impatient. And so, we have to recognize those things and be able to know that they deserve a container. Right. And. And that this is going to be a slow process that. Yes. I would love to see the liberation of all children tomorrow.
>> Leslie Priscilla: Right.
>> Leslie Priscilla: I would love to see every child respected and honored in the way that they deserve. Having mutuality with their. With the adults in their lives, learning from elders who have wisdom to share and have there be a trusting relationship there where that wisdom can really be integrated into the youth. that's not going to happen. I will die when I am hopefully 95, 96, and the next day there will be a child who is abused and, and hit and hurt. And so I have been working on, you know, it's. It's. I think it'll be a lifelong. Right. A lifelong effort to try to just know that I can do what I can do. Right. And that I, I can raise my children. I can have these children and I can raise them in a way such that is liberatory for them. And I can see them also smi. Yes. Right. As little seeds that I'm planting and watering and nurturing and offering sunshine to. Right. These, lessons in gardening and the cycles and nature are always there for us, even with our parenting. And so, you know, I want to extend, like my My love to you, Mariana. Because I. I feel that, like, I really do feel. Feel, the discomfort with it, you know? And, we've been talking about, like, you know, I. I used to not go to library story time with my toddler because I hated the way that parents would pick up their kids in the middle, just like, oh, my gosh. Like. And I'm like, imagine if that was you. Like, that's. And so this is the key, right, is that I want us to remember that version of ourselves, right, and what those things felt like. Because we might believe consciously that children deserve to be corrected and fixed and all of these things, right? We might be like, yeah, you know what? They deserve little. And I used to believe that, too. I used to be like, yeah, kids need to. Every now and then, they need a good spanking. You know, before. Before I learned about the brain and cortisol and all of these things, right? And I understood the effects of corporal punishment and the fact that it. It actually goes against a lot of the goals that parents have. but I. I have to hold compassion for myself then, too, because ultimately, it comes down to us feeling like we deserve violence, right? Feeling like we deserve some of those oppressive tactics from authority figures, right? We deserve punishment if we do not comply. That's an internalized experience. That's not necessarily what I believe out here. You tell me that you believe children deserve violence, and I will tell you that it's very likely that you feel like you deserved that violence as well, right? Because that's what we've been convinced of. and our parents were convinced of that as children as well, and our grandparents were convinced of that as well. But that came from an external, history, right? That came from a system that was set in place, to keep us feeling like we deserve dehumanization and violence.
>> Myrna McCallum: I think that's such a powerful thing that you said. Like, there's so many layers to it. And, Like, I can't help but think about where I've come from, like, my lineage. I mean, Ally and I, we are Cree. I'm also Metis, and I come from a Metis village in northern Saskatchewan. I mean, my mom was an Indian hospital survivor. My grandmother was an Indian residential school survivor. and I'm not even sure what happened with her parents and their parents. And then I went to residential school, and I. I mean, there was, like, the forced removal of indigenous children from their homes and the legalized kidnapping of indigenous kids is the reality that, like, my lived experience, like, I. I have seen it I've heard the stories. I had the. The blessing and the curse of examining, a lot of survivors through one, one aspect of my professional career as a lawyer. And I've heard so many stories of the brutal torture and acts of terror that were imposed upon indigenous children from members of the church, from priests, from nuns, from, just so many people. and later, what ended up happening was when they started to populate these schools, starting to move the churches out of the schools, they started to bring in former students from these schools, who then, like, you know, the oppressed becomes the oppressor. You've got people who were harmed as children who now harm, children. Right? And the cycle goes on and on and on. And I guess parenting is one component of that. Like, I grew up with a lot of violence. My mother grew up with a lot of violence. I know her mother grew up with a lot of violence. And I, you know, I wasn't the greatest. I had kids at 18. I, like Alicia, probably got, like, the brunt of a lot of my rage. I was 18 years old. I didn't know anything about parenting. I wanted a child because I didn't want to be alone anymore, and I just wanted someone to love me. And so I created her for that purpose, never thinking, oh, my God, how am I going to raise this person and create a beautiful human? I wasn't thinking any of those things. I just didn't want to be alone. And so I wasn't always the greatest parent. And Ally can tell you horrible stories of me, like, jumping her from across the table in a social worker's office because she ran away from home and told me she didn't love me anymore. And it just triggered me. there were so many. Like, I threw a candle on her head one time, you know, because she said a thing. She would. She had a way of saying things to me that made me see rage, you know, and she would do that a lot. But, But we're talking about her teenage years, right? Or her. Her, like, tween years where she knew how to push those buttons. But, you know, I was just saying to her the other day, because people have commented, oh, my God, your kids are so good. Like, they're not in games, and they don't do these things. And they're like, what did you do? I said, my kids were afraid of me. I mean, I wasn't beating on my children, but, they would be. Like, they saw a side to me that made them feel fear. And I really believe that that fear kept them in line and whether it was healthy or not, I don't know. Probably not. But I didn't know any other way. And I asked Ellie the other day, like, the fear that I impose, did that inform your decision to not go and do something that would have been really bad for you because you were like, oh, man, mom will lose her shit if I do this and I don't want that to happen. And she said yes. But also, I see her struggling with her children. Like, she doesn't want to repeat the things I did. And thank God she doesn't because I would be the first one in there trying to protect all my little babies from my parenting style, essentially. And so it's so complicated and there's so many layers of colonial oppression that inform so many decisions we make as parents and grandparents. And. I don't know, Ally do you have a say about what I said?
>> Ally Hrbachek: Yeah, I think, also a big part of the reason why, you know, me and Eric and Blue didn't go and do these things was, yes, we knew you could fly off the handle at some point and it would really suck. But more importantly, I think what we had that this person you're referencing and a lot of people, a lot of families, is that, I respected you. And, when you respect somebody,
>> Ally Hrbachek: you
>> Ally Hrbachek: think about others and what, how your actions have consequences to what they do. So I knew every time I was going to go do something bad, after the first few times that happened, I'm like, hey, that's actually not a good idea. M not worth it. Not good for me, not good for you. Because there would often be a lot of harm and then a lot of repair that would need to happen. And I guess it was just through love, respect, and a tiny bit of fear. Like, fear wasn't the only driving factor, that we're able to have the relationship that we do. And you know, you, even though you are the first parent in our family to break so many cycles of abuse, you know, you did something right. Because me, Eric and Blue are all here and alive and pursuing our dreams. I'm, raising kids. Eric is child free by choice because he just, he just wants to be in his own space, in his own world, and he is allowed to do that. And, yeah, that's what I have
>> Ally Hrbachek: to say about that.
>> Ally Hrbachek: But secondly, the one thing that led, me and my mom to have this conversation about parenting and like, I feel like I'm right now at like a crossroads where I am. My kids are 5, 7 and 8 and they are learning how to be challenging, how to be argumentative, how to stand up for themselves. And I love that.
Like my five year old daughter, she knows who she is and she's not gonna let anyone tell her different. And I love her for that. I embrace it. That's who I want her to know who she is always. But my daughter and my, my oldest daughter and my son, those two are so close together. They're best friends, but also worst enemies. So they're constantly bouncing off each other, like if you, if you put them in a room, like those two just go crazy together. And I love that they have that close friendship. But sometimes as a parent, because I carry a lot of physical labor, emotional labor in this house as the mom who's here for pickup, drop offs, emergency calls, all that stuff while still working, because my husband has a job where he has to leave for 12, 13 hours a day and then he comes back, but like, it's only an hour before bedtime. And that's the extent of his engagement with the kids. While I get, you know, the getting them ready, getting them out the door, coming back to work, sometimes getting calls from schools, then picking them up, then getting them fed, then dropping them off at practice, picking them up from practice, bringing them back home, feeding them, changing them, like that is my day in, day out, Monday to Friday, all the time. And sometimes when they just go absolutely crazy together, which they'll do because they're kids. And I have always created, I like to think that I created a safe space and a safe house for my kids, that they're not scared to be loud, they're vocal, they express their needs, they tell me their wants, and, you know, they fight with each other. It's what they do as siblings. But I get so overstimulated. I don't like yelling, I don't believe in hitting. I try to do timeouts. But right now we're at a stage in my parenting journey with them where I'm just like, I don't know what to do because I've threatened them a couple of times. And I'm like, you know what? When I acted up like this, my mom smacked me in my mouth. I'm like, you want me to do that to you? And then they're just like, tico smacked you? Because my kids call her Tico. And, I'm just like, you bet she did. And if I said a bad word, she put soap in my mouth. And she's like, that you wash your hands with. And I'm like, oh my God. Like these kids have no idea what punishment is. And I'm so grateful for that. But at the same time I am struggling because like, how do I navigate discipline, respect, love and care while not creating a cycle of harm, not instituting fear? Like, I just don't have the answers and I don't know where to go. Because while my mom broke a lot of cycles of abuse, I'm continually, I'm now in a stage like where I feel in my lineage, my heritage, my history, my family line, where I'm now creating a history of love and I don't know what to do.
>> Leslie Priscilla: You're already doing it. I mean, you just said what you're doing, you know, and I like, I had a group of 50 Spanish speaking parents yesterday in a room and same. We're all, all of us have this question, right? It's like, how can I go about this in a way that is going to prevent as much trauma as possible, as much adversity for them as possible. And also how do I ensure that there's resiliency, right? How do I ensure that they can get through hard things and that they can be uncomfortable and not, you know, just disintegrate if there's ever a challenge? and my daughter, I had this moment with her a couple days ago which reminded me of what you were sharing, Ally, with the comparison. Because we do, we tend to compare a lot. It is part of the dominant paradigm. I'm not saying that any of us are out of the dominant paradigm. All of us are a part of this dominant paradigm. we are challenging it, right? We're trying to move to another paradigm, but we're still here. And so I was dropping her off with her dad at his office and he wasn't there yet. He was going to be there in 20 minutes and she was like, I'm nervous and I don't want to be there by myself because I don't know, you know, the office people, mind you, her dad's, it's her dad's company. It's her, it's her grandparents company. So she's like the princess of this sportswear manufacturing company. Company. and so I'm like, you're gonna be okay. And I had a meeting at 11:30 and I was like, I really need to drop you off. I'm so sorry. Like I would, I would definitely wait with you. I'm doing all the validation at first and I'm like, I'm so sorry this is so hard. Like, I know that you really don't want this. and then I started going, he's gonna be here in 20 minutes, girl. Like, you're gonna be okay. You can sit in a chair and you can wait. And I was like, you know what?
>> Leslie Priscilla: When I was nine years old, I sat on an airplane and I, you know, rode to El Paso by myself on an airplane to go visit my Thea. And if I can do that, then you, at 14 years old, you can go sit in a chair in this waiting room for 20. It's like, you're going to be okay. And so she was upset with me for. For a while that day, right? She was just like, I feel very. She was telling me, I feel very invalidated, and I feel like you rushed me out. And that was really hard. And. And so it's like, you are going to survive experiences, right? And sometimes those experiences that you survive are going to be inadvertently from me because you know now that it is not my intention to harm you, to hurt you. You know, because we have built this foundation of love and trust that when I veer off, that I will come back, right? That there will be realignment, that there will be repair, that there will be, a restoration of that intimacy with our children. So that's part of life.
>> Leslie Priscilla: Every relationship is going to have that, right? You are going to. If you. And my friend Minaji, who wrote the. The workbook Decolonizing nonviolent Communication, wrote that if at some point, you know, if you're. If you and I are in a relationship long enough, at some point harm will be experienced by one or the other. and so how do we navigate it, right? When there is invalidation or where there is harm caused, or we did yell and I did startle my 6 year old, you know, or I did say something that I said I would never say, or I did, you know, because I've had to, like, I go like this and I'm just like, oh, God, right? Like, I don't want to. I don't know. But I have to be very open with parents too, that all of us have that experience. And a friend of mine, Jody, is a wonderful woman, one day said to me, and it stuck with me that, you know, parenting can feel sometimes like an assault on the senses. Like, you know, my. My son will shout really loud and I'm like, you know, and that's a nervous system, effect. Like there's effect there on the nervous system. And sometimes those. Those reactions are very involuntary. Right. I've, you know, my Son has smacked me and I've smacked him back right away. Right? And that's not like a voluntary move. I'm not like, oh, let me think about whether or not, you know, it's a whole other thing when people justify it and they say, oh, no, you know, you go and you, you know, pull your pants down. I'm gonna lay you on my lap. I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna get the paddle or whatever it is. That's a little different. And so, I just want to share compassion with you, Ally because it's. It is extremely difficult, you know, and I think all the, the mothers in here, you know, and, and Mariana, I mean, you're. You're a mother to your inner Nina too, right? And you're, and the children in your life also. I see all of us as kind of these, these caretakers. We all will experience those kinds of challenges. And I really like what Myrna said at the beginning around asking the question, right as you're asking Ally and you're saying, like, how do I do this in a way where I can build this foundation of love? But also, you know, we want them to be resilient. That's the question to ask. And there doesn't have to be an answer. But that's your intention. That's the seed of intention. You're planting every day. And where intention goes, energy flows. And so, I want us to just be very, very gentle on ourselves because we, we've already experienced a lot of shame in our lifetimes just by being women, just by being mothers, just by being, you know, women from, from the lineages that we're a part of. There's already so much shame there. And so I don't ever want to put a parent in a position where they're wagging their finger at themselves, you know, and, continuing that internalization of, you know, the shame and, and feeling like we're not good. I'm not a good enough mom. I'm not good enough for these kids. No, absolutely not. We were put here to be the parents for these children, right? We were put here to, to guide in the ways that we can guide. And, you know, she might have to go to therapy and talk about some things, and then I have to just be okay with that and say, yeah, I. This was my first time here on earth that I know. Like, I, I'm learning too. And. And she looks at me, my 14 year old, she's like, mom, you're just a girl. You're doing this for the first time, how I know that I'm doing something good because I'm like, okay, you have compassion for me in that way, right? Where you're. You understand that there's a lot happening, that it's not always easy to stay super gentle and. And be in my Minnie Mouse voice. Right. I always tell them when they're. When they're being, When their tone needs to change, I'm like, I need Minnie Mouse, please. They're like, oh, mommy, could you please? You know, and they switch. But, that's not always possible. We're human beings.
>> Myrna McCallum: Okay, so further to what you said, I want to put something to Claudia and Mariana. and while we can all, like, any. Anyone who wants to respond to this question, but, like, we've talked about the ways in which we've harmed, are the ways in which we've learned harm or become conscious of how we can harm children or how we. You know, it's a reactionary. I've done it too. Ally bit me one time when she was a baby, and I immediately pushed her onto the floor. Like, I didn't think I want to push my baby to the floor. I just did it, you know, like, anyway, so it's not always intentional. We don't need to talk about the ways in which we've harmed, because that could be really activating. But we know that there's grief and shame and remorse, and we feel all kinds of things when we have harmed, and we struggle. What I've heard is that we're doing some things for the very first time, and maybe no one in our family has done whatever it is that we're doing. So. So we're doing it without a compass or a map, and we're trying to figure it out as we go. and that's fantastic. But I'm thinking about some people who might be listening to this conversation, who might be asking the question. Okay, let's talk about another element of, like, the flip side of harm. How do we repair? Because we often haven't had those experiences either. I've never experienced my mom repair nothing with me. And I know she never experienced anything of, her mom trying to repair with her. Like, they have a good relationship. We didn't have a good relationship. I mean, my relationship with Alicia is one of the ways in which I'm breaking a cycle, but also just I'm doing it blindly. I don't know. I've never been here before. So I want to ask anyone in this room who Wants to answer, but I'm going to defer to you. Mariana and Claudia, how do you. How have you learned to repair things in your relationship when harm has happened? How do you repair? Who taught you repair?
>> Claudia Lezama: Well, I asked forgiveness. That's what I do. I had asked my kids forgiveness, even though they were very, very, very short. Like, I. The first time that I felt like that, abuse toward my children, I was 20, and I had Laura, my firstborn. And she just dropped the milk, and I screamed at her so bad, and I saw her face, like she was so scared. And I just cried a lot. I just cried. And I thought, I don't want to be this person. So I hugged her and I asked forgiveness to her, and I said, I'm never going to, scream again to my children. I tried. I tried. I did it, though. But I tried very hard not to scream to them since that day. So I will say ask, forgiveness and try to amend, to not do it again. Yeah, right. obviously, I always look for help. I went to psychologist. I went to my pastor. I read the Bible. I read lots of books, trying to understand what to do, to change that behavior. And I know my dad was a very angry man. He was horrible. So I knew that that came from him. So I tried to also heal myself, to be able to heal them. That's mainly what I did. I don't know, Mariana, what thinks?
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: I think it's. It's all about love in. In my mind. I also think my parents kind of trained us for repair because we were three siblings, and we. It's not like we were not allowed to fight because, you know, you will fight, but my parents never allowed us to. I don't know how to say that, but, like, elongate fights. And, like, I'll always remember one time that me and my brother were in the elevator, and my dad was in the elevator, too, and he was like, what's up? Like, I feel some weird vibes. And we were like. We both were teens. We didn't want to really say anything. And he catched up, and he was like, wait, are you still fighting about. Like, it was like, a fight, like, for three days that we've had. And I think it was the first time we were not really, like, talking like that.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: And he was like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, you are not gonna just stop talking, you know? and I can really remember, like, what he did, but I will always remember that moment in the elevator when he was like, that's not how you resolve things like, you. You need to resolve it. And obviously it's really permeated by also culture and maybe even a little bit of machismo and stuff. But he was like. He was always really, He always tell my brother that part of, like, his job as a sibling like us, or sibling to me and my sister was that he needed to protect us and help him protect us. So he was like, how are you going to protect your sisters if you don't know what's going on with them? and I think that permeated in our family. And honestly, I think my mom is not giving herself enough credit because also we've had really, really moments of, I don't know how to say that, like, break, you know, where their relationship really went through. Moments where I think if repair hadn't happened. There's some. I think there's some relationships that if you. Or. Or there's some harm that if you don't address basically cannot be repaired. You know, I also think culturally, many things want to be, like, brushed over and you're meant to keep the peace and, you know, like, be good with your family members no matter what, you know, and always. but we, like, coming out of the closet was really hard for my family. And I remember also my dad saying sorry after maybe like, three years of him acting up, and he said it like a very serious thing. and I remember telling him,
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: don't even like, thank you, but I don't even care. All I want is for us to be good. Like, I just want us to be good. I. That's truly all I crave, like, my family. and I think it comes from, like, that ability for me also what you are saying, to have compassion for him and to see also that, Because I think for my mom was easier. Like, she kind of like. I feel like, I don't know, Mommy, maybe you can talk about it. But one day, like, I feel like she woke up and she's like, it's done. Like, being kind of angry like this, you know, and you call me and we went to the movies. I remember. And. But my daddy took my dad a lot longer, you know, and. And I just remember. I just think that what you said is, like, you have taught her to also have compassion for you and to know that she comes from a place of love. So even though we disagreed and, like, and it was really hurtful, like, it was really, It was really hard for all of us. And we always been a really close family and Also, when we immigrated here, it was like all we had, it was just the four of us. So it was really hard. I moved out as, you know, like, for Latin families, it's not common that you move out young like that, you know? and it was really hard to move for all of us, but I just was so ready to be friends again, basically. And I think when you were talking about the dehumanization of children, I think parents also dehumanize themselves maybe, because. Yeah, if you don't want to make mistakes, you want to be perfect. No one is perfect. yeah, my parents have always been very compassionate people, and I think. And I've seen them forgiven so many people around them, you know, we had very big, tight communities, back in Colombia, from their church, from her family, from extended family. What you were saying, like tios and tias that are actually just neighbors or people that you're not even blood related, and you find out later in life that this is actually a neighbor, you know? and I remember, yeah, like, them fighting and then. Then everybody being all good again, you know, and. And I think I growing up seeing that too, obviously changes your ability to say sorry. And what you said, like, be resilient, not only as, like, resilient in your birth, like, as a person, but in your relationships, you know, like, have resilient relations.
>> Leslie Priscilla: Yeah. I just want to say one thing because. And. And Claudia, I'm so sorry, I do want you to. To respond to her, but really quickly, when you said the dehumanization of. Of ourselves as parents. Right? That's exactly it. That's exactly it. Is that we have these expectations for ourselves, and those are influenced by the adaptations that our culture has made into the families as well. And, but again, it's. It's. It doing away with the shame of who we are. Right? It's doing away with the shame of. Of having to get it right and, and feeling like we, we are not worthy unless we get it right. Right. We are not worthy unless we measure up to this bar that whoever set for us, right. Whichever system set for us. When I do work with parents, I'm like, okay, well, what was taught to us about the best way to be? You know, usually they're like, it's better to be light skinned. It's better to be skinny. It's better to be a man. It's better to be right. And so we have all of these ideas of, what we must be. and then we have this word right in espanol. Malcreato. Right. Which means poor, poorly behaved. Right. That's kind of the. The direct translation. And so that relationship, between the parent and child is always so connected in that way. Right. If you are bad, it means that you've been malcreato, that you were not raised. Right. but I wanted to let Claudia share, too, because I know that there's a response there.
>> Claudia Lezama: Yeah, more than. Yeah, it's a response, but it has to be also with the. The humanized, children that. That we were talking, obviously, when. When I was part. My older daughter is 36 now, so when we were parenting, there weren't this many options to look at and learn and, find out, answers to all these questions that, like the Ally has.
>> Claudia Lezama: Right.
>> Claudia Lezama: So we were navigating by ourselves. So what we did with my husband was to sit down and said. The first thing that I said is, because everybody was telling me, you have to spank them, use the chancla, blah, blah, blah, blah. And my. My answer was, the world is so bad enough that I don't want them to suffer now and, not to have a place where they can come without the chancla. So that's. That's why we didn't use the chancla or the correa. How do you say correa? I don't remember the belt. The belt or anything like that. But we use, la barita, like the Bible says. but never with our hands, obviously. Sometimes, like you were saying, oh, okay, I'm gonna kill you, but I don't want to. Okay, so that happened. but for me was like, the world is so bad enough that you don't. I don't want you to feel at home, like, in the world. So that was one of the main things we thought. And the other thing was like, okay, who one, who. Who is a person that we are racing.
>> Claudia Lezama: So.
>> Claudia Lezama: And. And that's very crazy because when I hear you, I think, was that good or was that bad? Because when we sat with my husband, we said, we want them to be independent. We want them to be able to say no. We want them to be able to talk to the other people and say what they think. We want them to have fear of God. We want them to be, So when we make this a scenario, that's what we thought. And we tried to raise those type of kids. That's what we tried. And now when I see them, I see them independent, and I see that they kind of spoke to the other people that it took Them longer to say no, but still they are learning. And I think, well, it was worth it. But I don't know when, we are talking about the humanizing. I don't know if that's like, did we still what they wanted to be? I don't know. Right now I am in a crossroad thinking about our thinking at that moment.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: I want to say that you also, when you did that thinking, you were raising children also to be in such a, like, hostile society too, you know. So, you know, I think if you had been parents here, you know, if you'd been those young parents here right now, in a more like, I want to say functional society, who knows how you would have felt, you know. But I always remember my mom always tell us this, that when we were born, there were so many children being stolen. And, in Cali and in the Valley, it was a lot of human trafficking happening that she wanted to take us and get all of our feet tattoo with her name and her like, ID and stuff, because she was like, you know, no one's gonna take these babies away from me. And it speaks a lot also about, you know, the context obviously that, ah, we were talking like all of the ancestries that, you know, have to do with how you feel about your children and about the context that your children are living in. Because, you know, like in Colombia too, every time you leave and every time you come back, he's like, oh, your grandma, Your parents are like, gracias, adios. Like, you know, it's like every time they say goodbye to you, they are like, you're not going to come back, basically. So, yeah.
>> Myrna McCallum: Oh my God. When he said that, Mariana, I felt like tremendous. Something just like move through me about the tattooing of the, you know, the kids feet. Because, you know, I think a little bit of me can relate to that fear. and also, you know, I think about my own people and our history here in Canada with Indian residential schools and the legalized kidnapping of indigenous kids that like, you know, my people could have tattooed their children and they would still take the children. And so many parents tried to rescue their children from these schools and the police arrested them and, or starved them. That was another way to punish, my people was to starve them if they tried to rescue their children. And then I, I often reflect, but I can't stay in it too long because I, don't know what to do with the grief that comes is like, what must have, what must that have been like to be In a village or a community where one day it's noisy and it's loud and it's boisterous and everyone has rules, especially the elders with the children. And then the next day all the children are gone and it's silent and the parents don't get to be parents and the grandparents don't get to be grandparents. And then like, what happened with my people is a lot of them turned to drugs and alcohol to cope with the loneliness. It didn't help that fur traders and missionaries were pushing alcohol on my people as well because they used it as a mechanism to take the land and steal the land and all of the things. And so, today we get punished and we get looked down on as indigenous people for the high rates of alcoholism, and drug addiction and suicide and poverty. And so many of our kids are in care. And like, there are many people who will say that the child welfare system is like the modern form of Indian residential schools. We, have the highest rates of kids in care in this country. many of us don't know how to parent anymore. Like, that has been so broken for so long. And and I think what it comes down to really is like a lack of love. We lost the love like and, or it was taken from us. And we are struggling to bring our love back into our communities, back into our relationships, back into like our own bodies. And there's just so much grief and so much rage and so much history and so much pain that it' like, I don't know how anyone who does the work you do, Leslie, begins to grapple with the whole space for all of that when we work in systems that uphold the dehumanization of kids. Because I look at the just the so called justice system where we treat children and child welfare cases like they are chattel, like they are property and they're not people. And I've seen so many family law lawyers with like big hearts who are dying inside because they play a role in this dehumanizing system. And like, and they experience moral injury because they know that the work they do is also creating harm. But they're trying to help and they can't strike that balance. And then they take on so much grief and unresolved trauma themselves. And it's just like the cycle just. I don't know how we, I don't know how we reconcile these things and come back to a place of love and care and healing and like that work is greater than all of us. And I know in all our lifetimes we won't see. We won't see all the what. What results from the seeds we are all trying to plant right now. But it can be overwhelming. I don't know, Leslie, how do you do it?
>> Leslie Priscilla: I think it's really important to, you know, honor that rage and that grief. you know, and again, I always, like. One of the workshops that I do is just entirely on. On managing, our collective grief, because we've also not been given the space to have our grief practices. but I also have to anchor myself in the fact that this has been a phenomenon that has caused so much damage and harm for 500 years or so, but also only 500 years, right? Where my people have been on this land for at least 18,000 years. And so I have to remind the communities that I work with that just as trauma stays in the body, so do our, you know, our capacities for love, right? Our capacities for healing. and it doesn't have to be complicated, right? A lot of times we get stuck in this idea that it has to. Our healing has to look a certain way or it has to produce certain outcomes. And that's still in that paradigm of having that expectation, of what it's going to do, right? Instead of just recognizing that sometimes it's enough for us to just be and recognize that we are still here, right? And that this is definitely not something that is going to be resolved, right away. But when we go to the ocean or we go to a body of water, or we stand outside and we put place our faces, you know, in the sunlight, or we go and we connect with the land and in other ways, right? I have to take my walk every day. I have to go and see the roses at the community park every day. Like, this is part of my survival, right? This is part of the way that I get through, through my grief, the way that I can alchemize my rage, through my work, but also just through being present with creation, right? I. I love, Sherry Mitchell and her book Sacred Instructions. And I've been so grateful to connect with an elder recently. Her name is Trini Rodriguez. she is of Navajo lineage. And she sent me, like, a bunch of Sherry Mitchells and videos and, like, lectures. And so I've been, doing my homework, right? As a good student, I've been doing my homework, and I've been learning from her. and Sherry asks this question of, what am I in service of? You know, what am I in service of? And that had been a question I had been Asking myself in different ways, right, why, why am I doing this? Or, like, what is the. What is the good that can come from this? Different ways of asking that question. But Sherry Mitchell says that, you know, as long as we are serving creation, right? As long as we are doing what we can to serve creation. Because the paradigm that we're up against is a paradigm of destruction, and it's not enough to just completely dominate over that paradigm, right? We really have to be fluid in this process, but also disciplined, right? There has to be that Earth element also. There also needs to be. Be protocols. There really needs to be accountability. we can't necessarily project that accountability, in the ways that that paradigm projects it onto us, right? In. In a. In a carceral way, in a punishing way. but it is very difficult. And Sherry Mitchell says that is the challenge is how do we move about being in service to creation, in a way that is not destructive, you know, and dehumanizing in and of itself. And so I really appreciate the lessons of my teacher Ruth, who, taught me the ideas behind nonviolent communication and said that all behavior is a strategy to meet a need. And that's universal. That's all of us. All behavior is a strategy to meet a need. and what, settler colonialism has done is disconnected us from those needs, intentionally from the needs of our body, from the attunement to our bodies, right? And so there's been so much disconnection. So we need to look at it as a restoration of those things, right? Those things are still very much available to us, right? Those, those practice, the grief practices, the, ah, you know, the ways of connecting with the land and nature and cycles and the elements and being very intentional about it. Those are things that are available to even our breath, right? It's like, you know, when people are talking about self care and I'm like, I don't consider the air in my lungs to be, anything but a relative. Like this is. This is me knowing that my lungs, you know, are present for me, right? The air, the oxygen is present for me. so I'm not alone here, right? I'm not alone here. I don't want to resign myself to thinking that, oh, well, you know, and I'm not saying that anybody here is doing that, but it can feel very hopeless sometimes and very helpless and very overwhelming. There was a time that I was writing my book and I was writing the second chapter. It ended up being. Oh, gosh, it was supposed to be like 7, 500 words. And it ended up being like 30,000 because I just. I was writing on colonization. I was writing on white supremacy. I was like, let me just put all the history here. And I was really glad I did that because it educated me, on a lot of things that I. That I didn't know. And. And it's not that long anymore, so if you read the book, you're not gonna have to read through 30,000 words. but I remember a friend of mine walking in, because at that time I shared an office with a friend. And she walked in and I was just like, like, gripping my desk, like in so much anger. and she's like, what's wrong? She sensed it right away. And I was just like, I just. I'm feeling the rage. I'm feeling colonization, you know, And I was like, I gotta go outside. I gotta go and take a very fast walk and get it out, you know, because that, ah, that, rage can create conditions in us and that rage can create illness in us. And that, if we're not doing our protocols right to be able to. To know how to process it. So. So much of it is supporting others in building the skill of alchemizing and of metabolizing the. The really heavy emotions. another teacher of mine says that we need to make space for all of the emotions. Right? I broke my wrist a few years ago, and I was like, I'm really frustrated, maestro. And she said, make space for it. And I was like, I'm tired of making space for it. And she was like, make space for the. Tired of making space for it. And I was like, oh, okay. Like, you just have to keep. Keep being expansive with it. Right? but it is very layered, you know, it is very layered. And that's why I'm like, I'm only. You know, I've been here almost 40 years. I have no idea whether I'll be here tomorrow, you know, and so really, it's the present moment that we have to worry about and whether we can come back into alignment with. With being in service of creation.
>> Myrna McCallum: I love that answer. because it's a reminder about, like, the power of reconnection, like reconnecting with your body, reconnecting with the lounge, like going to these places of, where connection exists. Because if I. If I was to just kind of dial it down to some of the. What people report as compassion fatigue, burnout, toxic stress, vicarious trauma, if. If I was to kind of like, narrow it down to the core of, like, what is the break there or the disconnect? It really is, like, loss of connection to yourself and loss of connection to the world around you and to nature and all the things that exist to support us that indigenous peoples and cultures across the globe have talked about for time immemorial. And it's always there for us, whether it's the breath or the trees or the water or the land or the medicine or the ceremony or all of the things is there for us. So reconnection. Powerful.
>> Myrna McCallum: Okay.
>> Myrna McCallum: We said a lot in the last, like, few minutes. Is there anything that has stuck out for anybody that you want to weigh in on? Mariana Alley or Claudia?
>> Ally Hrbachek: There was one thing that you said, about harm and healing a little bit ago, and I just, like, want to circle back on that because, like, you know, you're talking about grandparents and grandchildren, and I think that connection, especially now that you have it in your life, is so sacred. But also, while we're teaching this new cycle, new generation of love, you know, and we're talking about how, like, 500 years it'll take, you know, for us to get back to, you know, this idea of a healthy, healthy, safe space. one thing, though, in having this conversation that I never really thought of before is, like, it gives me hope to know that not only are we creating new generations that are breaking cycles, but at the same time, these new generations are also actively helping us heal in the process. one thing my mom always says, and she's shocked by this all the time, and she's like, man, I just never had someone tell me they love me so much. All the time, every day, many, many times a day, she's like, have you ever heard anybody say they love you that much? And I'm just like, well, they're my kids. They tell me they love me. But, like, aside from my children, I. I never hear people express love for one another, at least not in my upbringing and not in my community. so, yeah, it just gives me hope that, you know, while it may take, you know, this concept of 500 years, I really feel like we have a shot of getting there faster because we're not just raising a better, healthier generation, but the generations that are coming up are also healing us in the process.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: I feel like, also for listeners, if they don't know you, Ally and your kids, I don't think you understand how many truly, how many times they say I love you, they truly say it. Maybe, I don't know, every few sentences, they repeat how much they love you and how much they love Myrna. And even when we're in meetings, you know, like, we just see a little head appearing, and it's just like a little baby Tko I love you. And then they just, like, go back out. Really. That's in. That's the whole message, you know, they have is really beautiful. Go, Mommy.
>> Claudia Lezama: The other one. The thing that I want to say, about, one question that, Myrna asks us. Ah. About how did we were able to repair. Is something that I forgot to say and is that I try to remember how I felt when I was a child or a young person. and that I didn't know that that was decolonization. But I remember things when I was a child that I felt very bad. And then I tried not to bring to my kids. And, then now that I am older, that I am reading that I have my daughter that is so brilliant. I understand that I was decolonization because I have a cousin that she's black. I met her when I was five years, six or five years old. When I met her, I was so happy because I have a cousin and I invited her over my house and we had a sleepover. And next day my dad called me and to his room, to the room, and he said, show me spin. oh, I just wanted to see if you got some spots on you. that was, for me, that was horrible, right? That was racism. And I didn't. Knew that I was six years old. I didn't understand that, but I knew that I don't want my kids to feel this. Right. So I always tried to be very careful with that. But it was something that came to me just because I felt it. So when I am, struggling with my kids that are, for me are still my kids or with my grandchildren, I think how I felt when I was their age, how I felt when I was a kid, how I felt when I was young, like, they love potty. Oh, my God. When they were, had teenagers, they. Oh, I want them to be at home because it was safer. But I love to dance when I was young, so I let them go even it was killing myself.
>> Claudia Lezama: Right?
>> Claudia Lezama: But that's. That's the thing that I think for many people will help.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: And I think you tried also to give us some freedom. like controlled freedom, I would say, like, you know, because then, yeah, like, we were able to do stuff, but then, yeah, you have to call her or you have to do certain stuff, you know, she'll make sure who you're leaving or who you're coming back with, all of those things. and you better not be late because you're gonna be hearing about it. But I think also maybe, yeah, like, you try to be like, okay, how can we allow them to do these things that they want to do? You know, but also in a way that is also not so scary for you, you know, in a way that it was not so nerve wracking for you, because I was really, really, Like, in Colombia, we say "pata 'e perro" when you just want to be, like, chilling in some sidewalk, you know, like, with some friends.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: And.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: Yeah, I never wanted to be home. And I know that was really, really stressful for my mom. But, yeah, I did it anyway, so.
>> Myrna McCallum: Okay. Ah. I love everyone sharing, so openly. I want to ask a question of, Leslie that maybe will, also invite some input from everyone in this room. But I'm really curious. Mariana came up with this awesome question, but what role does community play in raising safe and liberated children? Like, all of us, like, what is our responsibility? What can we do to. And not just as individuals or community, but even as systems, because people are always looking at systems change, right? What can we do to help raise safe and liberated children?
>> Leslie Priscilla: Yeah. I've been using this phrase a lot lately, and we. We started using it around the time, that the aftermath of October 7th was happening. And there was so much that was being shown about, the plight of the people of Gaza and particularly the children, you know, children who lost entire families or limbs, and just their life, right? That their. Their lives. so this phrase, and I have the sticker here, I'll bring some to the conference for everyone. But it's all children are our children, right? And so that. That phrase really anchors me to be aware of my responsibility. it's really difficult sometimes to not feel like we can't save all the children in the world, right? I have these, like, dreams of just being able to swoop them up and just like, all right, let's. Let's get you to a safe place. but there are many children in my life, right? There are many children in my life, and I can show up for them in various degrees of presence. But I think we need to recognize that, ah, every decision that we make has some kind of influence, over a child, and we need to just have awareness of that. Right? I think about the way that my computer that's sitting in front of me, my iPhone here, has Cobalt in it, and I know how cobalt is gathered, and I know that the children in Congo, have mind for this cobalt, right? So I never forget these things. I don't. You know, I. I wish I could go and swoop them up, like I said. And I. And I wish that we didn't have dependency, you know, in this way. we have to make certain. What's the word? I'm forgetting this word right now. But we have to. We have to make. Not peace necessarily, but I maybe come into an acceptance of the, fact that, again, we're not going to sit in the shade of some of these trees that we are planting for some of these kids. with some of these kids, right. I have to be careful not to say for. Because with. Right. We have to be able to. To engage with these children, whether they are here, whether they are somewhere else sometimes. And this is not enough by any means, but I do believe that prayer and intention work. Right? I do believe that energies have motion and movement. I've been affirmed by this so many times, right? And so I think the more that we kind of expand these conversations and Myrna, what you've done with this conference and, you know, the conference that Ally and I met, by Dr. Sandra Leon Villa, there is motion happening, there is movement, right? There is movement happening, happening towards the protection of children. beginning also with our inner children, right? And recognizing the ways that we, ourselves, as children, were oppressed by these systems. and so I have so much trust and faith and. And belief that we will get there. I won't be here when that happens. but I will have had the influence that I was meant to have in this lifetime so that more people feel safe enough to heal, right? Safe enough to shed the shame around who they are as human beings. and that. That liberation that people experience at that individual level, I hope will create new systems, is already creating new systems, actually. And I have to remind folks of that because we. We teach a course called Seeds of Liberation, and it's for parents who want to start introducing, more challenging topics into the conversation with their kids. And, we know that, you know, Assata Shakur says that, you know, they're not going to give us the. The education we need, to liberate us, right? We're not reliant, on these systems anymore to be able to liberate us. And so I think those little, like, micro moments that we have with our children or the micro moments that we have in repair processes with not just our children, but with Other people. Those are templates that we're building. Those are templates that we're creating. those are things that our children will learn from and then our grandchildren will learn from and our great grandchildren will learn from. Right. and so we don't necessarily have control. Right. I was just reading about, you know, very tragic outcomes, in Malcolm X's lineage after, he was murdered by the US Government. But, you know, that. That's heartbreaking, right? Malcolm X is. His grandson had mental illness and. And was the reason that Malcolm X's wife was, you know, died when she did. And so I was learning about all that, and I was just like, wow. Like, that's not what he would have wanted. Right. That's not what. What was expected. and so we are battling this Goliath. You know, I. I grew up Catholic. I grew up, I went to Catholic school my entire life. And so I really draw from some of these analogies and stories. And, this is very much. This paradigm is a Goliath, you know, But I believe in us. But I really believe in what we're doing. And I really believe that we are passing torches, you know, we're passing torches down the. The group that I have with the students of Maesta Ruth. we're called Torch Bearers for Ruth, right. Where we're all kind of passing the torch of this paradigm that she believed in that we're walking towards. And so all we can do. We talked about Montanas, right. We talked about mountains. And all we can do is we can keep climbing that mountain, and we can recognize that there will be valleys all around, you know, on our climb. And we might slip and we might go up some. Some, windy, rocky, thorny ways, and we might get hurt in the process. And you have to keep going. We must keep going. we don't have a choice. I. I, I was co. Facilitating with my partner, Fernando, once, and. And, you know, he was like, well, I don't want to tell anybody that they must do anything. And I'm like, no, I think we must. You know, I think we must. We must continue on this path. I do actually hold us responsible. I do actually see myself as being responsible for not just the children that I birth, but all children. and so the more I feel like I've been able to say things like that about what I feel committed to. Right. and be strong in that. Sometimes it's just confidence, right? It's like, no, do I really believe. Yes, I really believe that I Am responsible. Right. So I think it gives others permission to be able to kind of join this, this movement towards liberation that we're all trying to climb together.
>> Ally Hrbachek: I love that. Leslie, I have a question for you. So then for people who are hearing the term like child liberation or social justice for children, like, what would be your advice to people as, ah, like stepping stones, like as for steps for them to take in their homes and walking down this path. What does, what would you say?
>> Leslie Priscilla: It's a lot of inner child work. It's a lot of reconnecting with that version of ourselves, you know, and, and giving vocabulary to our needs needs and giving vocabulary to our emotions and learning how to communicate what our needs and our feelings and our sensations are. I always ask parents to share stories, right, with me about who they were as children and recognize the ways that that part of themselves still shows up. So sometimes I'll ask, you know, and I'll ask you. Actually, this is a question for all of you, right? What was the nickname that you were given when you were young and, and someone gave you this apodo, this nickname, that made you feel love, you know. Mine was Chapa from my father. My dad would call me Chapa, which is short for chapara, which means shorty. Not that short anymore, but but it feels loving, right? And I, and I, at some point I think I'll get a tattoo because I have him. I have his writing. And I would like to, to be able to just remember that that's who I am, right? I am Chapa. And so I want to say, you know, I want to reflect that back to you all because I think this is something that listeners of the podcast can also start to reflect on is what is that name? And how do we honor that version of ourselves? Whether it's by placing pictures of ourselves up on their, on the fridge or on the mirror or you know, drawing Again, I, I wrote this story when I was I think seventh or eighth grade. And like, I forgot that I can write fiction. Like, I, I read the story, I pulled out this binder from 7th, 8th grade, and I found like a 10 page little fiction story that I had written that was based on like a National Geographic image. And I called it the Indian Girl. And it's this like beautiful brown indigenous girl. and so I was already doing that. Like I was already exploring these things, right? And, and so I think we have to remember, like, oh, we are creative, right? We have access to imagination and our children remind us of Those things, right? There have been so many times where I'm just very much not present, and my children are like, no, we must slow down and look at this roly poly. Like, we must slow down and watch the snail across the sidewalk. Okay, we'll slow down and watch. So I think it's allowing ourselves, too, to be humbled by our children and to see them as teachers, right, to see them as little, like bodhisattvas or whatever, you know, people want to use. But, that's a really big part of it for me, is just to see myself as a student of them as well. and, yes, but I really want to hear from you in terms of the nickname that you were given by somebody who loved you that made you feel. That made you feel warm and good.
>> Ally Hrbachek: Well, funny enough, my nickname is actually Ally. my legal name is Alicia. So it was, something my grandma used to call me, and my mom named me after her, her grandmother, Ally, Allison. And I don't know, it just became my whole personality. Like, I feel like Alicia and Ally they're completely different people. But I like Ally much.
>> Myrna McCallum: I like Alicia much better. But, I'm your mother, and I gave you that name. and actually, I named you after a woman named Alice Swanson. She was an elder that I knew when I was a teenager who was someone who showed me love when nobody showed me love. And, I just never forgot her. She changed my life. And so I knew when I had you, I wanted to name you after her. And coincidentally, people called her kôhkom Ally and in Cree kôhkom means grandmother. So everyone called her kôhkom And, like, one day, my girl, hopefully you will live long enough to be called kôhkom Ally yourself. So, yeah. And when, in terms of, like, nicknames. My mother, although she had. We had a very difficult relationship, and probably for most of my life, she did not love me. Like, she. She hated me. And this is just. It's indisputable. there were moments. There were always, like. Because nothing is ever always one way. But, there were little glimmers of moments when she would allow herself to love me. they were few and far between, but when they came, she would call me queen. And so I don't know that I ever told anybody that. But, yeah, occasionally that is a name that I would hear. And so, yes, I'm not going to get emotional, but I don't. I'd like to hear from Mariana and Claudia if. If there was ever a name that someone gave you that signaled love for you.
>> Ally Hrbachek: Well, in. In Colombia, we use a lot ita, like, Claudita. So I'm Claudita.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: She's also the last baby. So she was extra ita, you know, really baby, because. Yeah. How much is the difference between you and my aunt? 10 years? 13, 11. Yeah, so she was really the baby. my parents. Since I'm little and I've said this, sometimes I feel like that's my spirit name, like, my real name. they call me Little Morning, like Mañanita, which is, like. It can be like, Little Tomorrow or. But for us, it's like Little Morning, like, And they still call me like that. and sometimes I sign Maña, or, you know, because they. They also call me Mañanita. And maña also means, like, when you do something repeatedly, which I also do. so I think that's. That's, like, one of the names I love that brings me back to being and being little and being, like, moving all around. I wanted to say something earlier, too, when we were talking about the dehumanization and how we also were reminding ourselves that maybe, you want, we won't see the, like, fruits of this work. but I think we see it all the time, you know, And I think when we maybe, like, remove ourselves from the. And, that's my little sister, coming into body Learn. we. I forgot what I was saying. Absolutely. About all the fruits of the. Of the work we're doing. I was gonna say, like, to you, Ally and Marina, that like, every time, for instance, that your babies. And you're so lucky, because it's three little voices, you know, that every time that your babies say I love you, you should know that and feel that, you know, and then, like, be so proud that. That, you, co created. Because, you know, when Ally was inside of you, Ally you already had the eggs of the babies that are gonna be these babies, you know? So, you co created these loving, fun, funny, curious babies that are so loving and so full of joy and so fearless. And you can tell they don't have any visions. You know, you can tell that they feel so safe to be themselves. And, I was a nanny for many years, and I saw, sadly, many babies that don't act like that, you know, and don't feel like that and don't feel free enough, safe enough to be themselves, to be silly, to be funny, to talk back. and I think we can see those small wins all the time. And when we pull ourselves out of that binary of it's done or it's not done. The possibilities are endless. You can see so much more in everything when you were talking. Also, I remember one time, I was taking care of these baby, maybe three year old baby. I was just sitting on the floor and she was climbing me. She was literally playing to climb me. and her dad just like, sigh. And he was like, oh, Mariana, how are you so patient? and I was like, please give yourself grace. I'm getting paid to be here. I will go home after. And you, I finished your job and then you're going to start your second job. you know, you don't have, you're not getting paid to do this. This is not your whole focus, you know, to, to take care of this baby. So what we were talking also about, like, the humanization of parents too, is like, yeah, it is really hard. And I think society set it up also for it to be so hard. parents are lonely, you know, and I think that, there's a lot more people now that are asking those questions in relationship to children. Not only parenting, but in relationship to children. And I think it also makes people have adverse feelings because when they see their own children being so free, maybe they want to be free like that. But it is really hard. and it is, but it is a constant reminder, you know, that, that it is there that you can access it. That, I always say, like, it's so unfair that all the fun is reserved for children, you know? and care too. Adults need a lot of care. I, Myrna also always compliments me on my ability to like, my social relationships maybe. And she's like, you're really gentle. You really. And I think it's because I was a nanny for seven years and, and at the end of the day you can tell that, you know, when someone is grumpy, I'm like, are you hungry? Do you need to take a nap maybe? You know, we're all really just in very big need of community care. Not only like self care, but also like community care.
>> Ally Hrbachek: You're so wonderful, Mariana. Thank you. I think a big part of the reason why also, like, one of the most, like, life changing things for me as a parent is when I heard you speak at the con, at, the, the conference we attended over a year ago was these concepts of child liberation and adult, supremacy. I was like, oh my God, I am never gonna be aligned with any of those things. I'm not gonna, you know, oppress my children. And then I was like, why don't you? I let them be free thinkers. So now, like, I engage. I talk to them. Not like in adult conversation, but I talk to them like adults. And I'm like, oh, hey, like, how. How was your day? What did you learn? What would you like to do? Do you have any opinions on what you'd like for supper? You know, I just, I. I ask them and I engage in dialogue, and I am, you know, we just have like a easy, authentic, like, easy and real conversation. And some people look at me, mostly white people, and they're like, you talk to them like they're adults. And I'm like, oh, like I care what they want. And I ask them their opinion. I'm like, yeah, I do. And also, you know, we do effective problem solving where I'm not, like, do this because I said so. Although that still comes out every once in a while. It's like, okay, I'm gonna give you two options. You know, do you want to have this now, but you don't get to have it later. Like, you get to make the decision for yourself. So they get to really engage in what it's like to be, deciders over their own.
>> Ally Hrbachek: Their own bodies.
>> Ally Hrbachek: And, yeah, that is just, like the tiny little half day impact that you had on me that changed my entire parenting style. So I'm so grateful for you, Leslie. And I'm just. I can't wait to hear more of what you have to say at the. At the summit. And I'm so glad that we get to connect in, like, a professional capacity.
>> Leslie Priscilla: I'm so grateful, too. And, you know, I want to. I want to say it's interesting because I'm very, like, some. One of the things that Ruth did that was really helpful was like, train us around, like, the language of the paradigms, right? And like, we. When you're talking about the kids having, like, decision making power and. And you wanting to ensure that they have what I would call, like, autonomy, right? That they have. Their need for autonomy is met. their need for connection is met. Like, kids have these core needs. Autonomy, connection, validation, and affirmation. Right? All of these things. Attention. People are like, oh, they're just seeking attention. Well, yeah, let's give them attention. Right? We need to. We need to figure out a way to get that need met for them. And sometimes I need attention. I'm the baby that needs attention. Right? And I'm the baby that needs autonomy, too. I'm not a baby. Well, depending on who you ask. But, you know, I just, I just think that when we, when we recognize that our children have these needs, it makes it easier for us to be able to apply them in other ways. Right. With other people as well. and recognizing that even, even if we're working with adults, right, even these, these adults in the carceral system and even these adults in the judicial system, there is wounds galore, right? These are colonial spiritual wounds, that have become like a venom almost, that have taken over, some of these individuals in, in the system. Social workers is one, right? Rochelle, who's another, speaker during the conference, she's my, she, she's been my best friend since we were five years old. And we used to get into debates, not as five year olds in kindergarten, but later when she went and started working for the Bronx Defenders and I was studying to become a social worker, and we would get into these debates and she would say, no, you don't understand. Social workers can cause a lot of harm. What do you mean? You know, what do you mean? And, and no, it's because we are all somehow still a part of this paradigm. Right? And so, it is a privilege that I have had to be able to have had therapy since I was around nine years old. I started in, you know, there was a school counselor. I went to the school counselor. It normalized for me, being able to talk about what I was going through. and I was always a writer, and so I was always journaling. And I had the privilege, right? I had the privileged luxury to be able to go home after school and write in my journal. Most children in the world may not have that, right. I think about, kinsmen. You know, I was a lock, what is it called? One of those. Not a locksmith kid, like a, latchkey, right? It's a latchkey kid where you would come home and you were by my. I was by myself. And so for me, that was like, amazing, right? For some people it's like, oh, no, these kids, like, they need, they need the adult. Maybe I did need the adult, but at the time, my mom was not in capacity to be the adult that I needed. So I was able to write, I was able to process. I was able to do these things that I still find useful today. Right? But this is a thing of privilege. And so I want us to just kind of recognize that we're all worthy of having that space, that we're all worthy of having that autonomy, that we're all worthy of, of remembering, that even when we make mistakes, even when we kind of come out of alignment with this paradigm that we're still sacred. That was something that Maestro Jerry Theo really has reinforced in me. Right. Is that, we are all sacred, that we are sacred beings. And that is not something that can really change. Right. Unless, you know, we. We've convinced ourselves otherwise. Right. And so, unfortunately, all of the people and systems that are very good at dehumanizing people don't necessarily see their own humanity. and so I hold space for that. I also. I also protest that, and I also challenge that. I also call it out when I can. And, But it's always with love. You know, it's always with that intention, at least taste of being loving. sometimes it comes out a little thorny, but for the most part, I do it with love. And I know that you all do, too.
>> Myrna McCallum: I think that's, like, a common theme throughout this whole conversation is like, love really, like, if we just let love lead, like, this is the way back to our origins and. And all the things that we're trying to work toward. This has been an awesome conversation. I think I could go on and on and on, and there's still so much to talk about, about. Maybe we'll have another conversation. so before we. And, we're going to wrap soon. and I just want to mention. I just want to make sure that I plug this and don't forget about it, that. Leslie, I said at the beginning, you're going to be at the conference, you're going to be delivering a talk on systemic oppression, adult supremacy, and disrupting generational harm. And then later that day, you're going to be kind of in a round with your BFF, Rochelle. And Ally is going to be there, and Dr. Samah Jabr who is, Palestinian psychiatrist, is going to be there. You're going to talk about From Wounds to Wisdom, Intergenerational healing and systemic liberation across families, communities and systems, which is so much of this. And, you know, for anyone listening to this conversation, I think it's really important to acknowledge that, like, we were once children, and oftentimes the ways in which we were treated or mistreated as children informs the ways in which we make decisions as adults today. And it shows up in the systems that we are a part of. It shows up in our parenting. It shows up in our relationships. It shows up everywhere. And this is why we need to be having more conversations about children and ourselves as former children, because they're still there and in need of a conversation or a Voice, or the protection or the safety or the love that may be didn't exist when we were physically tiny bodied people. And so I think that's important to acknowledge. And this is why this conversation matters. Whether you're a lawyer, you're a judge, you're a social worker, a teacher, a doctor, a nurse, a living, breathing human, this is a conversation for you. And I invite everyone to listen. Everyone who's listening to lean in and share this episode with your friends. and Mariana, I saw that you turned your mic on. I don't want to, like, cut you off. Also, I wanted to just send you some love, Mariana, because I realized that when I talked about my mom, how in those tiny glimmers of when she would let herself love me, called me queen. You often come into our team meetings with like, your heart emoji hands, and you will say queen. And you say it a lot. And you remind me of that often. And yeah, I just, you know, you bring love all the time to our meetings and I really appreciate you for it. And, Yeah, okay, you were going to say something.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: I love you so much. and if we're thinking about children, I think that I connect a lot with children because I am really also with my emotions, really outside, you know, like, and children are a lot like that, so I don't feel shy around them and I feel like that's why they also feel really good. but I wanted to say because, Leslie, you also made me realize that, I just had this memory when, one time that my therapist was telling me we were talking about food and about not taking proper care of yourself by feeding yourself throughout the day. and she told me, would it be, how loving and caring would it be for you as a nanny if you only fed Ayla, this baby I love with all my heart, a banana during, in the morning and then a couple pieces of chocolate until 8pm Would you feel like that's very loving and caring? And it would always switch anything, basically. And that was a really good thing that would work for me. When my therapist would switch any, let's say, behavior that was not loving and caring towards myself, she would say, would you do that to the kids you take care of? And when you were talking about also how we see ourselves in children, and maybe that's also how you treat children because you think you don't deserve to be creative or to be loud or to dance or to be messy. it remind me of that too, because sometimes if we don't give that care to ourselves, maybe we're not giving it to others, but also vice versa. Sometimes it's easier to give it to others than to give it to yourself. that's the only thing.
>> Leslie Priscilla: No, I was thinking that's exactly why it's helpful to have some kind of representation of yourself as a child out and around, right? Whether that's pictures or whatever. Because I asked myself that same thing, right? What is, what is she? It's not what do I need? Because I'm like, I don't need anybody, right? I'm like, I can just be super hyper independent and. But no, I'm like, what does she need? She needs rest. She needs to go to bed on time. She means she needs to eat her veggies today. Genes to spend some time outside today. So it's what the children need. So needs are universal. And this is why I love the framework of, nonviolence, because it says, right again, every behavior is a strategy to meet a need. And when we can recognize that those, those needs are very much present, they may have changed and the expression of the needs may have changed. But that's still, that's still there, right? We still very much, yeah. We do, we do need to treat ourselves better. We do need to, have discipline around that in a healthy way. Right. And really decolonize our relationship with discipline. because it has meant punishment and obedience, you know, and respect has meant obedience for so long. I'm really glad that you, you talked about respecting your mom, Mariana, and respecting Claudia, because, you know, that's a big conversation. Latino families, right? Respeto. What does that mean? What does respeto mean? You know, doesn't mean obedience, doesn't mean, that you just do what the authorities say, you know, and no, respital is a deeper, more rooted thing. Right? It's the acknowledgment, it's the recognition, it's the humanization of this person in front of you. so I just wanted to thank you for bringing that in earlier in the conversation. And it's been really beautiful to witness these mother daughter conversations. I'm just like so full and, very happy that this happened. So thank you.
>> Myrna McCallum: Thank you for being here. Okay, let's do a quick round and then we're gonna. I'm gonna offer some closing comments and then we'll close this conversation. But, I'm going to ask every one of you if there is a takeaway or a thing that you'd like to leave with the persons who are not in this space who are listening to this conversation, in respect to children, or how we think about children, or how we treat children, or how we have viewed ourselves as children or our. Or whatever it might be. What, is a thing that you would want to say or share with somebody who's not in this room, but maybe might need to hear something connected to this conversation today. Ally I'm going to start with you.
>> Ally Hrbachek: I, think my biggest takeaway from this conversation and something I've been implementing and I'd like to see happen is that children are our greatest teachers, teacher. And just because they're showing up in little bodies doesn't mean that they don't deserve respect. That maybe an elder does.
>> Myrna McCallum: Love that. Ah, okay, Claudia.
>> Claudia Lezama: I will say it's very difficult, but we have to listen them, the children. it's very usual to. To chat them or not to pay attention to what they say, but usually they are able to explain what they are feeling and, ah, what's going on their minds.
>> Myrna McCallum: Thanks, Mariana.
>> Mariana Trujillo-Lezama: I think, me personally, I would love to, if we could remember that loving children is essential for our collective liberation.
>> Myrna McCallum: Powerful, Leslie.
>> Leslie Priscilla: I don't know if I can top that. I'm not trying to, though. I want to say that as children, all of us have deserved better. You know, all of us have deserved to have our needs met. And we continue to deserve that.
>> Myrna McCallum: Yes, 100%. And I think what I want to say is, like, further to what Alicia has said, I think that children are also our healers. They're not just our teachers, they're our healers. And I think we need to recognize, recognize that in them. And the greatest gift that we could give them is our time and our attention and our presence. Like, look at them. Like, really look at them. Put your phone down and look into their eyes and. And hold their gaze for as long as they tell you a story. Let them know that you see them, you hear them, and what they have to say matters. I think that that is essential to healing future generations and healing past generations. I think that's everything. So, I want. I want to say, Leslie, you mentioned a few times this book you're working on. I think you have a book coming out this summer. Is that correct? Can you tell us about it?
>> Leslie Priscilla: It's called Chancla So this is the only copy that my cat did not pee on when they sent me the galley copies. Everyone thinks it's hilarious. I'm still mad at him. but it's something that took me six years. from the time that I set it in motion. And I mean, it has a lot of what we talked about. There's a chapter on grief, There's a chapter on reparenting ourselves. There's a chapter on the effects of colonization. Again, it's not as long as it was initially, but, it's important to recognize what we're up against when it comes to, you know, liberating, Latina, indigenous children, black children, all children, really. So, But I'm very excited for it. It comes out August 18, and the pre order is available now, so I'll share the link with everybody. Super simple. It's LatinxParenting.org Chancla and I'm excited for folks to get their hands on it. It's going to be coming out in Spanish a few months after its release in English. So I'm like, it has to, right? It has to, because we need to get one for ourselves and one for the Diaz and the abuelitas and the abuelitos too, because it, you know, it is not just for. For women. I know that women are usually the ones that are, buying the parenting books, but it really is to, you know, to be able to heal us as a collective and not just one. One gender, one identity. so I'm excited to. To get it into everybody's hands. I'm very proud of it. I'm like, I'm trying to not be too home. I'm like, I actually worked, really, and I, you know, my interning is super proud of me, and we did this together. And, I'm just. I'm excited. I'm grateful, you know, and. Yeah, we'll see what, what comes of it.
>> Claudia Lezama: Sorry, I want to say something before we finish is that in my experience with the kids, and this goes to Ally we try to. To teach them the same way. Like, they are a pack, but learning from our family history. Everyone needs different, different attention and different ways to. To treat them. Like, for one of, for one timeout works. For the other one, it doesn't. So just try to see how they are and, you will find the ways to give them what they need to be raised. I don't know if I made sense.
>> Ally Hrbachek: Absolutely. Thank you so much. Yes, I will definitely keep doing that. It's like every time I pry my two psychos apart, they just, like, come right back together. It's like, just separate. So I'm working on it.
>> Leslie Priscilla: These kids. These kids.
>> Myrna McCallum: Yeah. We have to be adaptable, meet them where they are, because they are all. All different, all unique. okay, so, Leslie, I'm gonna put the link, to your, all the information about you, your social media, the pre order for your book will be in the show notes for the podcast. Thank you so much for being here. Can't wait to see you at the Justice Is Strong summit next month. It's in, like, 20 days or something. I'm so excited about it. And, yeah, thank you, Claudia. Thank you, Mariana, for being here. My daughter, Ally, for being here in this really important conversation. I think it's the first of many, so.
>> Myrna McCallum: Thank you.